Stage II/III recommendations

[Glsec507]

2006 Road King 42,000 miles. As far as I know the engine is stock. (It's a used police bike)
Full boar slip ons. Fullsac true dual conversion. Arlen Ness big sucker. Dobeck EJK 3.5

It's the TC 88 engine and still has the spring loaded cam chain tensioners in it. About 4000 miles ago I checked the outer tensioner and as much as I could see of the inner and they were ok. Not flawless but not nearly as bad as most of the pics you see when you look them up online.

I want them out. I intend on swapping them for the new style chain tensioners with the new plate and pump. Gear drive is appealing but with all the talk about runout and noise and whatnot I figured it would be a safer bet to go chain style instead of gear on this bike since I don't know the history of it at all. I don't need a bigger problem on my hands down the road if the tolerances for gear drive wear out.

While I'm in there (or while the shop is I should say) I figured depending on costs maybe I could upgrade cams. Maybe go with larger cylinders, hell maybe even stage IV the beast.

Where do I start? I don't want the shop to just suggest whatever and say ok do it and have it not be the best option so I'm looking for some tips/suggestions.

Bottom to midrange improvements is what I'm after. I ride two up somewhat often. And freeways around here don't go above 65mph and at those speeds I'm only above 3000 rpm when accelerating faster than usual or if I'm really excited .

Where can I go to from the stock 88? I was looking at the S&S kits but I don't know which ones do what or are even doable. I guess I plan on using s&s for the new cam plate and pump and tensioners. The shop I'd use also uses Feuling products.
I see a lot of 510 cam threads but a lot of kits use 585(I think) and basically any other number or name. Looking at cam spec info on the website I see these cams working in higher rep ranges. Does that mean they won't impact bottom or mid ranges? How big can I go on cylinders? At what point would I have to upgrade other parts such as the heads or throttle bodies when doing the previous upgrades.

I'm really just flying blind so any help would be appreciated.

Side note I also plan on upgrading the exhaust and was thinking the fuel moto 2 into 1 because it comes in black and there's a heck of a deal that includes a power vision for half off. But that's another thread.

I know it's difficult to give me the "you should get this" response because everyone's needs and wants are different but I need to be pointed in some sort of a direction before walking into the shop and committing.

Thanks

 

[dolt]

The first suggestion I would offer would be to focus on your objective. You truly don't need to replace the OEM cam plate and oil pump; just replace the tensioners with a set of CYCO tensioners. The OEM cam plate and pump are more than adequate for an upgrade to 95"/98"; the money would be better spent on head work.

BTW, don't be afraid of gear drive cams. If your crank run out is .003" or less, gears are quiet and you eliminate, forever, any issues with chain driven tensioners. No matter which tensioners you choose, they remain to be a maintenance item that require checking from time to time.

There are several "kits" available for guys like you that are having the work done by a third party. One of the most economical is the kit from Automotive Machine Supply in Cleburne, Texas. They offer a complete kit, heads, cams, cylinders bored/pistons fitted/rings gapped for a very reasonable price.
https://amsmotomachine.com/index.php/top-harley-parts

Hillside Cycles (New York) and VeeTwin Performance (Florida) are two other options for similar kits. You can talk to Scott at Hillside and Kirby at VeeTwin
http://hillsidecycle.com/
http://veetwinperformance.com/

I could build you a motor on paper that you would probably be happy with but I hesitate to give detailed advice for a variety of reasons. But in generic terms and with budget in mind, I would suggest retaining the OEM cam plate and oil pump, replacing the tensioners with a set of CYCO tensioners, increasing displacement to 98", having the heads worked, retain the stock throttle body, selecting a cam like the Andrews 48, SE255, Cyclerama 575, TMan 555 Torkskter, have the head porter set up the heads to deliver the "sweet spot" compression for the selected cam and, last but most important, install a good fuel management system like the Power Vision and get a good dyno tune.

If you ride two up, rarely exceed 65mph and 3000rpms, you are looking for a mild build. My suggestion to you would be to contact the guys at AMS, Hillside and VeeTwin; they are all good guys and like talking to potential customers. Select one to put a complete kit together and have you local shop install the kit. All of the referenced vendors will work with customers on an exchange basis and will send out the parts as opposed to you sending in heads and cylinders for a "core" deposit which will be refunded when they receive your parts in good condition; minimizes down time.

I don't know that I would change the exhaust; the Fullsac setup is not bad. If you are just wanting a 2:1 system, the FM pipe is a good pipe. You will need a tuner to replace the Dobeck unit which is a decent unit but not what you need to tune the new build. Power Vision is good, just need to find a good dyno tuner. Do not go with pre-programmed maps; no replacement for a proper dyno tune.

 

[Glsec507]

Great info thanks. I hear you in the less maintenance worries with gear driven but I have no way of knowing my runout with someone going in and checking it. Frankly, I wouldn't trust myself to take the proper measurement on that type of thing from my garage. Hence my defaulting to a better chained system.

I assume the cyco tensioners work with the OEM cam plate? Does increasing displacement to 98 mean the same thing getting the cylinder/piston kits that match that size?
Can I bring the bike to the shop with these requests and say I want the heads reworked for (insert desired cam) without them looking at me like I'm .... off?

And I am not sure who dynos around me but I'd avoid a dealer. Any ballpark price for a dyno so I can factor that into the budget as well?

Thanks, I'm gonna check out those companies.

 

[dolt]

Great info thanks. I hear you in the less maintenance worries with gear driven but I have no way of knowing my runout with someone going in and checking it. Frankly, I wouldn't trust myself to take the proper measurement on that type of thing from my garage. Hence my defaulting to a better chained system.

Very easy to check run out; could even have a local shop check it but I understand.

I assume the cyco tensioners work with the OEM cam plate? Does increasing displacement to 98 mean the same thing getting the cylinder/piston kits that match that size?

Yes, CYCO tensioner are designed to work with both early and late OEM cam plates.
http://twincamtensioner.com/shop/
Increasing displacement to 98" means boring cylinders to fit new pistons. Back in the day, boring to 95" was the limit but in recent years boring to 98" has become pretty much standard with most builders and all the builders referenced in my previous.

Can I bring the bike to the shop with these requests and say I want the heads reworked for (insert desired cam) without them looking at me like I'm .... off?

I would have the heads worked by the builder. Donot separate head work from the rest of the package; a recipe for disaster. Once you have talked to the builders I suggested and selectee one to work with make arrangements for the builder to put the kit components together, pay the core charge and when the local installer tears down your motor for the rebuild, you can send your heads and cylinders back for a refund of the core deposit. Check with your local independents and get a quote and estimated turn around time from them for the rebuild based on the kit components before ordering the builder parts. Work with a shop that has a solid reputation; ask for references if necessary.

And I am not sure who dynos around me but I'd avoid a dealer. Any ballpark price for a dyno so I can factor that into the budget as well?

Smart to avoid a dealer. Some tuners that use the Power Vision will sell a license for $150-$200 which means the customer does not have to spend the $450 for the Power Vision. A good tuner will save your tune to a thumb drive so you can have a re-tune by any tuner that uses the Power Vision; some won't and that locks you to that tuner for future retunes.

Thanks, I'm gonna check out those companies.

Check them out; I suggest take a hard look at VeeTwin and Kirby.

 

[Glsec507]

I appreciate your help!

Stuck at work and can't make those kind of calls but I'm gonna email them.

 

[Joyflyin]

Dolt...The man who's avatar does not fit the description of his generous help & knowledge to others in the HD world!

 

[Glsec507]

Already contacted veetwin. Although it doesn't appear he does exchanges he does have some attractive kit offerings to bump me to 98" with a set of 583 cams by his recommendations