BEWARE THE HARLEY BRAKE RECALL SCAM
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dolt
Well-Known Member
The OPs post doesn't deserve a reply for a couple of reasons and the poster obviously knows nothing about the recall; the OP is a troll.
The ABS fluid is water soluble and the two year flush/exercise procedure is necessary to insure that the moisture stays in suspension. Should the moisture fall out of suspension, it could cause some corrosion in the system and affect the operation of the ABS brakes. I think the MoCo engineers could have come up with a better system but it is what it is. So, those with affected motorcycles have three choices; sell and replace with a non ABS model, convert to non-ABS brakes or follow the service manual recommended maintenance and flush/replace every two years.
I posted this in another thread. A link to the recall bulletin is attached. If I was John R. I would try to recover the $250 but let the dealer do the recall flush. Part of the of the service includes "exercising" the brakes and all is recorded via Digi Tech; from their site:
If covered, the dealer will flush the entire brake system with a new H-D Platinum Label DOT 4 Brake Fluid using Digital Tech II. Owners will also be reminded of the 2-year maintenance cycle specified in the Owner's Manual. As noted, this condition is associated with delayed or neglected brake fluid maintenance as specified in the Owner's Manual. Harley-Davidson does not intend to reimburse owners under its Reimbursement Program for costs incurred related to prior brake fluid flushes. However, Harley-Davidson is offering the remedy fluid flush (using the new H-D Platinum Label DOT 4 Brake Fluid) free of charge to all motorcycles within the recall population, regardless of their maintenance history.
The dealers have to do the service correct or the mother ship will know; everything done in DigiTech is sent back as a CYA record. It is my understanding that most dealers will not have the new HD Platinum Label DOT 4 fluid until March. I would not have the service done until I was assured the new fluid was available.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RCLRPT-18V076-4574.PDF
The ABS fluid is water soluble and the two year flush/exercise procedure is necessary to insure that the moisture stays in suspension. Should the moisture fall out of suspension, it could cause some corrosion in the system and affect the operation of the ABS brakes. I think the MoCo engineers could have come up with a better system but it is what it is. So, those with affected motorcycles have three choices; sell and replace with a non ABS model, convert to non-ABS brakes or follow the service manual recommended maintenance and flush/replace every two years. I posted this in another thread. A link to the recall bulletin is attached. If I was John R. I would try to recover the $250 but let the dealer do the recall flush. Part of the of the service includes "exercising" the brakes and all is recorded via Digi Tech; from their site:
If covered, the dealer will flush the entire brake system with a new H-D Platinum Label DOT 4 Brake Fluid using Digital Tech II. Owners will also be reminded of the 2-year maintenance cycle specified in the Owner's Manual. As noted, this condition is associated with delayed or neglected brake fluid maintenance as specified in the Owner's Manual. Harley-Davidson does not intend to reimburse owners under its Reimbursement Program for costs incurred related to prior brake fluid flushes. However, Harley-Davidson is offering the remedy fluid flush (using the new H-D Platinum Label DOT 4 Brake Fluid) free of charge to all motorcycles within the recall population, regardless of their maintenance history.
The dealers have to do the service correct or the mother ship will know; everything done in DigiTech is sent back as a CYA record. It is my understanding that most dealers will not have the new HD Platinum Label DOT 4 fluid until March. I would not have the service done until I was assured the new fluid was available.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RCLRPT-18V076-4574.PDF
censor of public morals
New Member
STEVE07: Be advised that I have not posted this item anywhere else nor have I joined any other forums.
Breeze3at: The dealer says the bad fluid caused the electronic module to fail and was not covered by the recall or warranty thus the $700 parts, labor and tax to replace
Gator508: More to the story? Like what? Its simple really, the bad fluid Harley put in there caused my brakes to fail endangering my life and the public. That bad fluid also caused the electronic module to fail. BUT that's not covered under the recall or warranty. Why is it not covered if the bad fluid caused it to fail? It certainly should be. Don't break my bike and then make me pay for it. You broke it so you (Harley) pay for it. Don't use a recall to victimize your customers. That only ads insult to injury.
The OPs post doesn't deserve a reply for a couple of reasons and the poster obviously knows nothing about the recall; the OP is a troll.
I posted this in another thread. A link to the recall bulletin is attached. If I was John R. I would try to recover the $250 but let the dealer do the recall flush. Part of the of the service includes "exercising" the brakes and all is recorded via Digi Tech; from their site:
If covered, the dealer will flush the entire brake system with a new H-D Platinum Label DOT 4 Brake Fluid using Digital Tech II. Owners will also be reminded of the 2-year maintenance cycle specified in the Owner's Manual. As noted, this condition is associated with delayed or neglected brake fluid maintenance as specified in the Owner's Manual. Harley-Davidson does not intend to reimburse owners under its Reimbursement Program for costs incurred related to prior brake fluid flushes. However, Harley-Davidson is offering the remedy fluid flush (using the new H-D Platinum Label DOT 4 Brake Fluid) free of charge to all motorcycles within the recall population, regardless of their maintenance history.
The dealers have to do the service correct or the mother ship will know; everything done in DigiTech is sent back as a CYA record. It is my understanding that most dealers will not have the new HD Platinum Label DOT 4 fluid until March. I would not have the service done until I was assured the new fluid was available.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2018/RCLRPT-18V076-4574.PDF
Dolt: Thank your for your insightful comments. Be advised this particular bike had the brakes replaced along with new tires less than a 1,000 miles ago at the local Harley dealer. I have followed all service manual recommended maintenance within the time limits suggested. I was told that the electronic module had failed because of the bad fluid but that it was not included in the recall or covered under warranty and thus the $700 additional charge for parts and labor. If the failure of the module was caused by the bad fluid put there by Harley they should pay for it.
Joel: Thank you for your comment. Fact is the dealer says the bad fluid they put in there caused the electronic module to fail but despite being caused by their negligence is not covered under the recall and not under warranty thus the $700 in charges to replace. Question; If the module failed because of their negligence why is it not included in the recall?
Lobo1: Forgive me but I feel you are missing the point here. While I agree with you that I would pay any amount of money to be safe, I think it the responsibility of Harley to pay for something they caused. Their negligence caused my brakes to fail and as a result the electronic module failed. Why then is it not covered under the recall? To draw me and my bike into the dealership and hold it hostage until I pay for replacing the module which was damaged due to the recalls underlying cause it patently unfair.
Jeff: Its the Electronic Module, Parts, Labor and Tax
Breeze3at: I am not offended by being called a "Harley Bashing Troll", I've been called a lot worse even by my wife. But I would caution you against making judgements before investigating the situation. Here's the specifics for you at risk of repeating too much. The underlying reason/cause for the recall also is the cause for my electronic module failing. The cost to replace the module was quoted at approximately $700+. Should of been covered in the recall since the bad fluid caused it to fail according to the dealer. Would you pay for replacing a part Harley damaged?
Joel: I am being charged for replacing the electronic module which was damaged due to the same cause that prompted the recall. I have followed all scheduled maintenance within the time prescribed since purchasing the mc and have the records to prove it. I have the same questions you have namely why is the module not covered in the recall since the fluid is the cause of the failure (according to the dealer)? It certainly should be and Harley should know this. That is why I suspect Harley is up to no good. Why would Harley stoop to such a thing as trying to make money on a recall? Well, it may have to do with the fact Harley said its net income fell 82 percent in its fiscal fourth quarter 2017 to $8.3 million, down from $47.2 million a year earlier. Earnings per share were 5 cents, down from 27 cents a year earlier, while revenue was $1.23 billion, up from $1.11 billion. I don't know if you run a small business but imaging losing a whopping 82 percent of your net in one year! (Source: https://exhaust.racerxonline.com/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-reports-sharp-decline-in-sales-in-2017) You'd be very keen on finding ways to stop the bleeding. Is that what Harley is trying to do? Looks like it to me. You don't break something that belongs to someone else tell them to bring it in so you can repair the damage you did and then charge them for some part not included in your offer to make it right. That's bait and switch. That stinks to high heaven. And as if that's not enough, you hold the bike hostage and require the owner to trailer it from the lot and sign a legal release cause its too dangerous to drive it without the brake repair. Keep in mind the dealership did not require you to trailer it in to them only out if you don't pay and sign. I agree with you this has class action written all over it. I will take your suggestion and contact the attorney general and the NTSC regarding this matter of public safety and corporate manipulation of a recall. Recalls are intended to correct problems not create new ones.
Jeff: The dealer admits the electronic module failed due to the bad fluid. The module however is not covered under the recall or warranty thus the quoted price to replace, parts, labor and tax is $700+. Any reasonable person would say if Harley broke it they should fix it. To do otherwise is consistent with a corporate plan to manipulate the recall and make it, not an expense, but a revenue generator.
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I'm no expert by any means BUT I don't see how bad fluid will cause the module to go bad.
I think whoever told you that is blowing smoke up our backside.
I think whoever told you that is blowing smoke up our backside.
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New Member
I'm no expert by any means BUT I don't see how bad fluid will cause the module to go bad.
I think whoever told you that is blowing smoke up our backside.
Jeff, I am no mechanic but the dealer explained it this way. The bad fluid congeals and becomes hard. The module keeps trying to move the fluid and cannot, fatigues and eventually breaks. This does not happen in all cases but it did in mine.
Thanks for giving the explanation the dealer gave you but i'm still not buying it.
If the module failed and it was a direct connection to substandard fluid it should be covered in the recall.
If what you say is true I see many law suits coming Harley's way. JMHO.
If the module failed and it was a direct connection to substandard fluid it should be covered in the recall.
If what you say is true I see many law suits coming Harley's way. JMHO.
joel
Well-Known Member
"Joel: Thank you for your comment. Fact is the dealer says the bad fluid they put in there caused the electronic module to fail but despite being caused by their negligence is not covered under the recall and not under warranty thus the $700 in charges to replace. Question; If the module failed because of their negligence why is it not included in the recall?"
So if I'm reading this right, you [ and it's ok to let us know your name ] have a bike that was made by Harley-Davidson, during assembly the new brake fluid was installed and system bled as required. You road the bike and during this time the fluid collects deposits of the seals as they normally wear do to heat / age, and somehow it collects moisture while being a sealed system, leading to the change in color of the brake fluid while lowering the boiling point, there for the recommendation for the every 2 yr flush requirement. This performed at the dealership, with them providing you an invoice for this service.
Than you had it done a second time for all the same reason, aka regular service. And the dealer again provided a copy of the service provided.
Now your there at the dealer again with them letting you know the ABS module has failed do to the fluid they installed.
And on the invoice they provide they stated the fluid they installed on the previous services caused the failure.
This to me would be a servicing dealer responsibility, as they stated the fluid they installed caused the failure.
So if I'm reading this right, you [ and it's ok to let us know your name ] have a bike that was made by Harley-Davidson, during assembly the new brake fluid was installed and system bled as required. You road the bike and during this time the fluid collects deposits of the seals as they normally wear do to heat / age, and somehow it collects moisture while being a sealed system, leading to the change in color of the brake fluid while lowering the boiling point, there for the recommendation for the every 2 yr flush requirement. This performed at the dealership, with them providing you an invoice for this service.
Than you had it done a second time for all the same reason, aka regular service. And the dealer again provided a copy of the service provided.
Now your there at the dealer again with them letting you know the ABS module has failed do to the fluid they installed.
And on the invoice they provide they stated the fluid they installed on the previous services caused the failure.
This to me would be a servicing dealer responsibility, as they stated the fluid they installed caused the failure.
dolt
Well-Known Member
At the risk of repeating.
There is no such thing as "bad fluid" and whatever fluid is in the ABS system did not cause the electronic module to fail. The problem with the original fluid, as I understand it, was that the original ABS fluid is water soluble and the original compound would not hold the moister in suspension for the recommended flush/replace interval of two years thereby allowing corrosion to some ABS components. Is it possible that corrosion could have damaged the electronic control module; don't know. However, if the OP can verify that the required two year flush/replace ABS maintenance was followed, he should have taken a hard line with the dealer, trailered his bike home, contacted the Mothership before taking any further action and considered taking his bike to another dealer. I also have to believe that if an electronic sensor had been damaged, particularly a sensor in the such a critical system as the ABS, a code would have been thrown.
Considering that the MoCo engineers erred on the side of safety, the two year period is very likely much longer, probably at least four years or longer which may be why it has taken this long for the recall; speculation on my part.
The new Platinum fluid is not even available yet at many dealers so I would suggest that the OP verify with the dealer and get a printed record of the flush/replace; from my previous post.
The dealers have to do the service correct or the mother ship will know; everything done in DigiTech is sent back as a CYA record. It is my understanding that most dealers will not have the new HD Platinum Label DOT 4 fluid until March. I would not have the service done until I was assured the new fluid was available.
I monitor several HD forums and have yet to see anyone that had ABS parts damaged or have had to pay for any parts replacement or any additional labor.
Furthermore, if the OP thinks that the MoCo is trying to solve their financial woes he is dreaming. This is not the first time the MoCo has seen sales revenue and profitability drop off and the MoCo's response has been rather bold in the past. The M8, although there are some issues, is a step in that direction; the MoCo has also stated that the intend to introduce many new models over the next ten years; the electric bike is due to go on the market as a 2019 model, the Dyna has been eliminated and morphed into the Softail line, I expect the Sportster is not long for this world either, etc. The MoCo can't solve their sales problems with recalls. The cost involved in the development of the new Platinum fluid as well as the labor to provide the service will not be off set by charging everyone $700 extra.
Bottom line for me from the OP's posting is that a dealer may have financial issues and will try to offset sales revenue by taking advantage of the recall and charging customers that do not question the charges for additional services. Did the OP ask the dealer for the damaged electronic module? Is the OP certain that it was replaced?
I rambled in my previous and failed to make a couple of points and I wanted to edit the post and boil it down but too late.
I seriously doubt that an electronic module in the OP's ABS system was damaged, but could be wrong. Having said that and to the point Joel makes, if the OP followed the prescribed two year flush/replace maintenance schedule via the dealer, the dealer has recorded the services under the OP's VIN, so there is a record. If an ABS component was damaged, it was damaged by the fluid that was replaced or by the tech the performed the service and, therefore, the repair/replacement should be the dealer's responsibility.
The OP should have gone to full stop when advised of the $700 additional charge and challenged the dealer as well as contacted HD Corporate.
If you get a letter, take the bike in for the free service. It will be done by DigiTech II and will be on record. However, be prepared to challenge the service manager that tells you there is going to be an additional charge and make sure that the additional expense is justified.
I empathize with the OP but ultimately it is on the owner to understand why and for what he/she is being charged and challenge until satisfied that the charge, for whatever, is legitimate. There is a lot of information on other forums on the ABS recall.
There is no such thing as "bad fluid" and whatever fluid is in the ABS system did not cause the electronic module to fail. The problem with the original fluid, as I understand it, was that the original ABS fluid is water soluble and the original compound would not hold the moister in suspension for the recommended flush/replace interval of two years thereby allowing corrosion to some ABS components. Is it possible that corrosion could have damaged the electronic control module; don't know. However, if the OP can verify that the required two year flush/replace ABS maintenance was followed, he should have taken a hard line with the dealer, trailered his bike home, contacted the Mothership before taking any further action and considered taking his bike to another dealer. I also have to believe that if an electronic sensor had been damaged, particularly a sensor in the such a critical system as the ABS, a code would have been thrown.
Considering that the MoCo engineers erred on the side of safety, the two year period is very likely much longer, probably at least four years or longer which may be why it has taken this long for the recall; speculation on my part.
The new Platinum fluid is not even available yet at many dealers so I would suggest that the OP verify with the dealer and get a printed record of the flush/replace; from my previous post.
The dealers have to do the service correct or the mother ship will know; everything done in DigiTech is sent back as a CYA record. It is my understanding that most dealers will not have the new HD Platinum Label DOT 4 fluid until March. I would not have the service done until I was assured the new fluid was available.
I monitor several HD forums and have yet to see anyone that had ABS parts damaged or have had to pay for any parts replacement or any additional labor.
Furthermore, if the OP thinks that the MoCo is trying to solve their financial woes he is dreaming. This is not the first time the MoCo has seen sales revenue and profitability drop off and the MoCo's response has been rather bold in the past. The M8, although there are some issues, is a step in that direction; the MoCo has also stated that the intend to introduce many new models over the next ten years; the electric bike is due to go on the market as a 2019 model, the Dyna has been eliminated and morphed into the Softail line, I expect the Sportster is not long for this world either, etc. The MoCo can't solve their sales problems with recalls. The cost involved in the development of the new Platinum fluid as well as the labor to provide the service will not be off set by charging everyone $700 extra.
Bottom line for me from the OP's posting is that a dealer may have financial issues and will try to offset sales revenue by taking advantage of the recall and charging customers that do not question the charges for additional services. Did the OP ask the dealer for the damaged electronic module? Is the OP certain that it was replaced?
I rambled in my previous and failed to make a couple of points and I wanted to edit the post and boil it down but too late.
I seriously doubt that an electronic module in the OP's ABS system was damaged, but could be wrong. Having said that and to the point Joel makes, if the OP followed the prescribed two year flush/replace maintenance schedule via the dealer, the dealer has recorded the services under the OP's VIN, so there is a record. If an ABS component was damaged, it was damaged by the fluid that was replaced or by the tech the performed the service and, therefore, the repair/replacement should be the dealer's responsibility.
The OP should have gone to full stop when advised of the $700 additional charge and challenged the dealer as well as contacted HD Corporate.
If you get a letter, take the bike in for the free service. It will be done by DigiTech II and will be on record. However, be prepared to challenge the service manager that tells you there is going to be an additional charge and make sure that the additional expense is justified.
I empathize with the OP but ultimately it is on the owner to understand why and for what he/she is being charged and challenge until satisfied that the charge, for whatever, is legitimate. There is a lot of information on other forums on the ABS recall.
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If dot 4 is soooooooo bad why not make a system that uses one of the other fluids? Sounds pretty simple.