Hey guys, I’m new to this/these forums so forgive me if this happened/been asked/been answered. I have an ‘09 street glide and in April of last year I put the 103 kit with 255 cams in it and it had the screaming eagle tuner. I broke the engine in properly. I went on a 3000km(2000mile) ride with a couple buddies. At about 2/3 of the trip in, the engine developed a tic while in 6th, 3200rpm and with “load” put onto it. I couldn’t ride all summer due to injury but, got back on er at the beginning of September. I went on a short ride with my wife and camping gear and it did the same thing. When I got home, I refreshed the tuner with the saved program and I could not get it to replicate again. I’m wondering if anybody knows any reasons as to why this would happen and am I looking at the wrong things? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Engine tic
- Thread starter adamb
- Start date
dolt
Well-Known Member
Sounds like your "tic", under load, in 6th gear is detonation; a down shift at 3200 would most likely taken you out of the "tic" range. The CCP (cold cranking compression) generated by the combination of 103" with SE 255 cams with .045" stock head gasket is just under 200psi. Depending on ambient temps, the "load" quality of fuel and tune might have created the "perfect storm" for detonation to present. The fact that the condition repeated on the two up, loaded with camping gear ride supports the potential for detonation. The fact that the condition did not replicate with the saved tune (not knowing what the saved tune is) also supports the detonation theory.
The noise is described as a "tic" which is not the typical description for detonantion which is usuall descrbed as "marbles bouncing on the top of the pistons". The term "tic" is usually associated with the valve train which can be caused by a lifter not holding its prime. However, if it was a lifter ticking, the noise should have presented regardless of which tune was running. Are you running adjustable or OEM pushrods?
Are you running 93/97 octane fuel? Was the new 103" motor configuration dyno tuned and by who? Was the "saved" tune the OEM tune? I know the tic presented at 3200rpms but how fast were you going when the tic presented. Suggest that you reload the tune that presented the tic and when the tic presents, down shift to 5th and see what happens.
Of course, you should be able to cruise at 3000 to 3200rpms at 70mph without having to worry about detonation which will kill an air cooled vtwin if not managed. I have had personal experience with this same situation. I ran a cam in a 95" motor with an early intake close which generated CCP just under 200psi. I live/ride in southe Texas; hot summers. The motor ran fine in the cooler months of the year but started to detonate in July/August when ambient temps approached 100*. We tried to pull timing but when we pulled enough to elimiate the detonation, the bike was a dog; a cam change and retune was the fix to return the performance to where it was before.
I see three ways going forward.
1. If you are happy with the "saved' tune, i.e., no detonation, you can run that tune
2. Get the bike back on the dyno with a competent tuner and see if he can tune the detonation out.
3. Worst case; if a retune doesn't maintain the same level of performance and allow you to cruise at 70mph in sixth gear without the detonation, then a cam change and retune may be the only solution; you have to eliminate the detonation. or you will be rebuilding again.
It is hard to diagnose problems like this from a post, If I could ride the bike, I could be sure of what I have posted which is JMHO. So apologies for the winded post but the "devil is in the details" and I focus on the details. If any of the above information is not an accurate understanding of your situation and question, feel free to correct; I just want to help out.
The noise is described as a "tic" which is not the typical description for detonantion which is usuall descrbed as "marbles bouncing on the top of the pistons". The term "tic" is usually associated with the valve train which can be caused by a lifter not holding its prime. However, if it was a lifter ticking, the noise should have presented regardless of which tune was running. Are you running adjustable or OEM pushrods?
Are you running 93/97 octane fuel? Was the new 103" motor configuration dyno tuned and by who? Was the "saved" tune the OEM tune? I know the tic presented at 3200rpms but how fast were you going when the tic presented. Suggest that you reload the tune that presented the tic and when the tic presents, down shift to 5th and see what happens.
Of course, you should be able to cruise at 3000 to 3200rpms at 70mph without having to worry about detonation which will kill an air cooled vtwin if not managed. I have had personal experience with this same situation. I ran a cam in a 95" motor with an early intake close which generated CCP just under 200psi. I live/ride in southe Texas; hot summers. The motor ran fine in the cooler months of the year but started to detonate in July/August when ambient temps approached 100*. We tried to pull timing but when we pulled enough to elimiate the detonation, the bike was a dog; a cam change and retune was the fix to return the performance to where it was before.
I see three ways going forward.
1. If you are happy with the "saved' tune, i.e., no detonation, you can run that tune
2. Get the bike back on the dyno with a competent tuner and see if he can tune the detonation out.
3. Worst case; if a retune doesn't maintain the same level of performance and allow you to cruise at 70mph in sixth gear without the detonation, then a cam change and retune may be the only solution; you have to eliminate the detonation. or you will be rebuilding again.
It is hard to diagnose problems like this from a post, If I could ride the bike, I could be sure of what I have posted which is JMHO. So apologies for the winded post but the "devil is in the details" and I focus on the details. If any of the above information is not an accurate understanding of your situation and question, feel free to correct; I just want to help out.
Dolt, thank you for the response. I run the highest octane fuel available where I go. At 3200rpm in 6th I’m cruising about 80mph. At times the temp gauge did seem to be higher than usual. I’ve been looking into an oil cooler as I know it would help regardless of solving the “tic” issue. And yes, when I did down shift to 5th the “ticking” did go away. The tuning I installed was the screaming eagle program that’s used for this engine configuration. And yes, maybe the last time I road it(after the reflashing) it didn’t tick due to not being warm enough. I’ll try the oil cooler first and go from there. When I can get out riding again(I live in Alberta Canada, currently around 10F with 3’ of snow everywhere) after the oil cooler installed, I’ll let you know what if that solved the issues. Thanks again for advice.
dolt
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you are confirming the source of the tic is detonation. If the 'highest octane fuel" is 93/97 octaned, fuel should not be an issue. The oil cooler is a good upgrade and should drop oil temps a bit but doubt that it will reduce head temps which the ECM is reading. The SE tune is no replacement for a proper dyno tune. I would get the bike on a dyno for a proper dyno tune before the detonation does any damage; problem wil be solved. Keep us posted on progress.
Thank you sir, that probably is the best idea. I’ll start doing some research into good companies.Sounds like you are confirming the source of the tic is detonation. If the 'highest octane fuel" is 93/97 octaned, fuel should not be an issue. The oil cooler is a good upgrade and should drop oil temps a bit but doubt that it will reduce head temps which the ECM is reading. The SE tune is no replacement for a proper dyno tune. I would get the bike on a dyno for a proper dyno tune before the detonation does any damage; problem wil be solved. Keep us posted on progress.
I agree with dolt on a proper Dyno, do not have it done at a dealership tho, they are a complete joke.
I agree, I won’t let them touch my bike, I only go there for parts.
dolt
Well-Known Member
I am geographically challenged WRT Canada; have no idea where Alberta is. I know a very good tuner in Nanaimo, Lonewolf Performance, but I have looked and see his shop is quite a ride away from you; looks like 1000 miles. I will contact him and inquire about other tuners in the area and who he would recommend; I trust him. Stay tuned in.
I have a short list of questions that you should ask a potential tuner before handing your bike over to them but will hold off on providing them until you need them; you will not need them if you opt to use a tuner Lonewolf recommends.
Good luck.
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dolt
Well-Known Member
PMd Lonewolf; he is not aware of tuners in the Albera area but has offered to take a look at the "Screaming Eagle" tuner but we need to know if the tuner is the SESPT or the Street Tuner? If you can down load the tune and send me the file, we can have him take a look at it to see if the tic is fuel or timing related. If you are interested in at least getting some knowledgeable feed back from a competent tuner, let me know.
He has sold his dyno to a shop about 45 minutes north of Nanaimo and is getting the new guy up to speed. Many of his customers come from various locations on the island, I suppose, because there is a lack of independent dyno operators on the island. It is possible to find a competent tuner at a dealership, I know a couple in south Texas but they are very rare. Let me know if you want to pursue this path with Lonewolf; he is will to help as much as he can.
He has sold his dyno to a shop about 45 minutes north of Nanaimo and is getting the new guy up to speed. Many of his customers come from various locations on the island, I suppose, because there is a lack of independent dyno operators on the island. It is possible to find a competent tuner at a dealership, I know a couple in south Texas but they are very rare. Let me know if you want to pursue this path with Lonewolf; he is will to help as much as he can.