free website stats program FI modules | Page 2 | Harley Davidson Forums

FI modules

MIKE610 said:
....and I purchased a Dobeck TFI module that mounts on my bars. I can add fuel as needed. it does not remove fuel. So using it , in conjunction with a Race Tuner or a PC is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Using both of these units defeats their purpose.
The SERT can do anything and more that any other unit can do , there's absolutely no need for the two units. The SERT reprograms the ECM parameters (remaps it) and the TFI changes a signal that the ECM sends out after the ECM, so where is the logic in this?
 
Hi Glider I am always interested in your feed back. As far as both units being not necessary, I am open for information. I spoke in great length with the techs from Dobeck about how to make their unit work the best. They said that you can fine tune the temps ( fuel burning) by using a programer (SERT) first, then using their unit after the computer has been remapped. Especially on the open circuit systems ( no O2 feedback, just MAP sensor) . Once I change my mapping , my new data is sent out by the ECM and you can richen it as needed ( fine tune it) with the Dobeck. This can be done on the fly, anywhere you are, not just back at the shop, with the computer hooked up . I am listening to you and the techs at Dobeck. Well , I will try it out and see. I am installing my Innovative O2 system this week, and my dual Digatron Pyrometers, and the Dobeck unit. I already have the race tuner mapped and will see what readings the fuel ratio is actually truely set at. Then I will see how the Dobeck units either helps or not. With my wide band O2 sensor, and pyrometer readings I will actually see how the bike is rich or lean and the exhaust temps that correspond to each other. I will see this in the real world , not on a fixed dyno.( with a strapped down bike, inadequate wind, and no weight variation. With all the variables, outside temp, wind, bike weight ( really changiing) , altitude, all corespond to different fuel needs. You know all this, better that me. Thank you again for you input ,
 
Mike

Not doubting you here but if you have the SERT, all the other things are insignificant. The SERT map is about as good as it gets if done properly no piggybacking etc. That's all I was trying to say.

If you are using the TFI to touch up a bad SERT map, then I can understand but IMO, get a dyno done by a good tuner and just go with the SERT. The TFI only over rides the SERT map anyway varying the pulse width of the injectors, why not do it from the source (SERT)
 
HI GLIDER Well here's some more info and requests from me on the tuning issue. I just got back from a Leesburg, Fl. Bike fest. Drove over 500 miles. I installed dual pyrometers, a touch pad new gen 3 Dobeck, a Innovative O2 guage system on the rear cylinder, and had a certified Harley service manager reset my race tuner. I do understand it overrides the map , but it sure is nice , depending on speed, wind, terrain, to be able to fine tune it right as you go, no computer set up. But I still had problems. The main issue is cylinder exhaust temp being very high , even when the bike is very rich. Should never happen. At 70 mph exhaust about 1275 deg at 80 mph about 1380 deg and 1450 at 95mph. I could not add enough fuel. My O2 was reading 12.8 to 13 to 1 ( rich ) this was at a steady throttle. I could accelerate and the temp would drop to mid 1300( as extra fuel was added) . As soon as I reached steady throttle , temp would go right back up. Rear cylinder ran 30 deg hotter than front. No matter what I did , I would always be on the rich side , but to hot. I will go to a dyno shop and get
them to run it, Maybe I can make it work in the right temp range , but I have very big doubts. I know it is running rich. My fuel without dumping in extra amounts with the Dobeck unit was at about 38 mpg. When I started really dumping fuel to get the temp down I was getting 25 mpg. I was riding the turnpike, with gas plazza's set about 70 miles apart. Riding at the speed the temps would let me run. Now here is the real issue. If you know this , your the man. I think it is a state secret. What temps do the Harley's run at??? I know people that work with Harley ----- They cannot get that info. so I know it is hot, especially the new 08's. No one I have run into , called, or E mailed, has run pyrometers on the engines. Everyone thinks that O2 readings are all that is important. Maybe so , I just want to know. I tuned our Turbo and Blower cars with pyrometers, never O2's. Running from normally asperated to boost changed everything. They had to be rich in the boost mode, for longevity. What about our Harleys. An engine builder told me to change the cams to a longer duration and temps would go down. Maybe == Bottom line -- What temps do Harleys Run at???? Mine felt fine the entire time, did not feel lean in the least. Let me know what you think. thanks again Mike
 
Mike

There's so many variables with these bikes, I really don't know if anyone could answer that. Cam duration, fuel mixture as well as grade, exhaust flow and a bunch of other things will determine what the temps are. Even between similar bikes the temps could be different.
 
Operating temps at the head range from oh................do you have the password?But seriously folks 250F to over 300F in heavy traffic.When I write maps I let the bike cool a bit when I see 280F.OK Mike you owe me one.:bigsmiley24:
 
Hi Fisher Thanks for the info. I was wondering, since at this time, I do not read the
head temp, but rather the exhaust temperature. Do you have any input on that temp range??? I went on Internet last night , researched the topic. Found some shops that sell Fuel Injector computer sets. On several sites , including talking with a very knowledgeable tech. I am told the bikes run 1000 to 1600 degrees exhaust temp. They are said to have temps around 1450 at full torque. Do these numbers seem correct with you??? My bike is reading this exact temp range. I was told to tune it with the O2 and not the pyrometers. I will do so, but first I want to know what is the correct range. I do understand much influences these temps. But at this time. I have a stock bike , with 2 to 1 exhaust by screaming eagle and a good air cleaner. Better intake, and 2 to 1 scavaging exhaust pulses. My question is for all stock Harleys. What do they run at???? I have two very knowledgeable guys from different locations stating those numbers are correct. What do you say???? Thanks again for your help. In this world , every little bit of info is greatly appreciated. Mike
 
Exhaust gas temps are dependent on throttle opening and RPM.You don't want to tune your Harley with them.I am a two-stroke fan and use them sometimes.They're more for monitoring than tuning and react somewhat quickly so you had better too.Temps from 900 to 1500+ are common measured 6" from the valve head.The Harley ECM needs to see a reference from the O2 sensor if equipped.It's just resistance but is important.
Where are you reading the temperature?Just because you have a temp loss doesn't mean it's rich.When you're lean there's a high O2 content in the pipe.What do you think the extra O2 does?Right it cools the probe.You've also got to accommodate the fact that exhaust system cooling from atmosphere will influence what you're seeing.Tuning with EGT is a huge pain and has many factors involved,use an O2 sensor.Also when you had the service manager "reset" the SERT what exactly do you mean?In the end it's best to spend the money on a good tuner with a dyno and trust him.One more thing,are you using a TFI on top of a SERT?Why?Waste of time and money.
 
Hi Fisher Thanks for the reply. I understand your exhaust temp is factored by many things. You are a two stroke fan, so am I . We were into racing Banshee's - bored , stroked, high compression , drag pipes, extended swing arms, etc , etc , etc. more money than my Harley. I have 4 kids all had exotic quads, Odyessys, Pilots, motorcycles, etc. We ran the big dunes from Idaho to Glamas. We tunes our bikes , turbo cars, and blown Jeeps with Pyrometers. Always gave us a base line for how the machines were running - depending on outside temp, humidity, altitude , terrain. Could not keep the kids from punching pistons without readout - high limit monitoring with lights - pyrometers. So I am very used to them. Run them now on all my Diesels. Have run them on our Sport Bikes, never a Harley. This 2006 Electra glide runs hotter than anything I have had. I do not like it,but that is the way, at this time, my bike is set to run. I have my probes about 5 inches from the head. With the wide band O2 sensor about 8 inches from the head. My bike is a 2006 open loop system. No O2 sensors in the loop. I took out the air temp guage in the dash and added the Innovative analog guage in its place. My O2 readings are all rich, to confirm this my mpg readings are down. To try and cool the exhaust, I add more fuel, with the Dobreck TFI ----- it did not drop the temp much and mpg went to 25. I know more fuel is being added from this. I mounted the O2 sensor in the pipe as far from the end of my exhaust as possible to have as little atmospheric influence as I could. I have a two to one Screaming Eagle Exhaust. I am using the pyrometers as a reference tool. I want to actually know what temps my bike is putting out with the fuel I am adding, and the corresponding O2 reading. I have used them a lot, they do not lie, I am trying to learn something here. Thanks for your help. I will reset my Harley Race Tuner to bring the O2 readings back in line. I always understand that I can do that. I know the bike will get hotter as I lean it out, and at first I was so unprepared for the temps that the bike was actually reading. Now your input, along with several other experts has led me to a more knowledgeable understanding of the actual temps these bikes run at. My service manager( a very rare guy - races HD's and is great with the race tuner ) had reset the race tuner for more fuel in several rpm ranges. I do know of a great dyno guy. I just want to see what I can do , and the readings of the bike before I let him have it. That way after he has set up his input into my ECU I can really see what O2 readings and temps my bike is running and how it corrolates to performance, fuel efficiency, etc. Your last comment why add TFI on top of tuner. My bike is EFI . Set it up here - hot steamy Florida - sea level - travel Colorado 10,000 ft cold, dry. Lots of diff. My bike does not operate in a closed loop, which it should . I just wanted the ability to fine tune the fuel, on the fly, without my computer. Maybe not necessary, maybe so . they are not expensive , in the Land of our High dollar Harleys.We used another of the Dobeck units on another HD we have, with out the race tuner modifiying the ECU. I works well. I taked to the Techs at Dobeck. They said this tuner works better after a Race tuner or Power comander. I enjoy trying to make the HD work better. I really enjoy the learing curve and intelligent input from knowledgeable guys like you. thanks again. I am going to keep trying. Mike
 
No problem.The Harley is designed to keep a great deal of heat in the combustion chamber/head to get as complete a burn as possible for emissions.This may send you temp readings higher than you think tolerable.They're just trying to keep the old air cooled lump in the lineup.Wait 'til you see what's next!OBDII is coming!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top