Harley Davidson needs a loan

[DDogg]

O.K. you say I bought my bike for pleasure. What about the guy that bought the boat, the skidoo, the 4 wheel deer getter. If you think about it, everything that we don't use to get us to work, is a luxury. I bought my bike for pleasure but also for transportation. With that said, I pay taxes on both my cage and FatBob. I have to have a license plate on each to drive which also pays for my roads. So by buying a Harley, filling it with Premium, and riding to work, I"m doing my part in helping support my area. As I said, if we did away with all the pleasure items to save a little gas, we'd all be out of work.

 

[scrinch]

What happened to the free market?

When the big three or any big companies like oil etc. start sending the taxpayer checks during their million $$$$ profit years, I might be inclined to agree that the taxpayer help them during the lean years.

How does it help our economy in the long run to keep going further in debt to bail out businesses that are failing due to their poor decisions and performance?

 

[glider]

Glider, I hope you ripped a few "kind" words (--in the phrases that "--met the highest level of decorum our HDT Contributor Extradinaire Emeritus is well known for...! Yeah Baby!!!

Yep, he knew exactly what i thought of him and the service department. I'm sure there was no doubt in his mind!

 

[Sgt York]

I used to buy only American. The first HD I got was a new 77 low rider. When I got it home I was upset to see made in Japan on the speedo. Called the dealer back and he told me the front forks and carb was also made in Japan. Told me if it was all made in the USA, I could not afford the bike.

Last American car I had was a 1999 Explorer. Loaded and I really liked it until it got to 50K and I had to spend 2500 at the dealer for a trans. The week after the trans replacement, I went to get a front end alignment and was told it needed all four ball joints. Traded it for a used Toyota truck and at 199,999 miles (and still running good) I traded again and got a 2005 Tundra (was not cheap). The Tundra now has a little over 50k and no problems.

Wife has a 1998 Blazer loaded (what she wanted). It has 125K on it and the rear main leaks, wiper works when it wants to, replaced idler arm, one speaker works, body rattles, drivers door sags, well you get the picture. Wife does not drive much but when the HD is paid for the Blazer will be traded.

I would love to buy only American again, but can not afford it in down time and repairs.

I've only worked at one place that had a Union and it was not good. Had a bad fall cutting tree limbs in 72 and was told I might not walk again. Long story short, 2 months later, I went to work for General Wire on the line a week after getting out of the hospital. A little harder work than I should have doing right out of the hospital, but it's the first job I could get. My job was to load the spools of wire on the machine that put the color coating on. Hard work and I had a tough time with it due to my fall but keep up. Before I was at General Wire long enough to join the Union, they decided that they would go one strike and expected me to walk out with them. Only problem was they could not protect my job if I did, and threaten me if I did not. So unions do not set well with me.

I do not think we should bailout the American automakers. BUT on the other hand if the big 3 goes down, too many jobs will be lost, not only from the big 3 but suppliers also.

 

[Sheepdogmarine]

On paper, and for the purposes of debating our point of view, we can easily claim that motorcycles are not a luxury item because yes, they get great gas mileage, and yes, they are a practical way of getting around, especially in a congested area or a place with tight roadways and lots of traffic.

All GREAT arguments....on paper. In theory.

Time for a reality check though, and real, look ourselves in the mirror honesty.

99.999999999999% of us ride for FUN. We aren't saving fuel, we are in fact WASTING it, because most of us ride most of our miles for the sheer pleasure of being on our bikes going for a ride, and that is ALL.

Now, before some of my buds here get all crazy, yea, some of you go to work on your bikes. Some of you go pick up milk and bread on your bikes. (The bagger guys like me anyway.)
Some of you, (VERY, VERY few, lets call a spade a spade fellas), use your bike as your primary transportation.

But the vast majority of bikers ride for pleasure, and it IS pleasurable indeed!!!

But lets not kid ourselves that we're saving the environment here, because if everyone who owns a bike never used another gallon of gas to just "go for a ride", there would be incredible amounts of gallons of fossil fuel left un-burned every year, I'm sure.

This isn't blasphemy guys...I've been riding for 40 years and loved every ride, and I'm not about to stop, but I'm not for one second going to try to convince myself it isn't anything but selfish and wasteful use of natural resources.

Well, I did ride my bike for most of the summer. I could spend $40 a week going to work and cruising around. My dually took $120 to go to work and back only.

My point is that where will it end if everyone just runs their business poorly and it fails. It should not be the taxpayer's or the government's responsibility to keep coming to their rescue.

Bankruptcy and restructuring may be a better way to go, even though it will cause some pain.

I am just glad I am not in politics. They have one heck of a mess to try and figure out.

To answer the original question of this post. If they loan money to GM or Ford, then why should Harley be left out if they need it? I personally don't believe they should bail out anyone.

If they had wanted to do something really great, they should have took that $700 billion and paid off all of our houses and cars. The government could have loaned us the money at a nice 1.5% interest rate. Then with the money we are saving we could spend more on goodies to keep the economy going. Sure, the banks would suffer, but they are the ones who are really responsible for all of this mess. Interest only loans, loaning out 125% of the homes value, burying people in horrible adjustable rates, what the heck did they think was going to happen??

Okay, stepping down again.

 

[STEVE07]

I would like to see them file for bankruptcy and restructure the companies so they run more efficiently. The GM plants down south are making less than half of the wages of the GM plants up north that are unionized and they have no issues with layoffs like the northern counterparts have.
Why is it that the union shops get such high salaries and the workers that are doing the same job elsewhere for less money aren't experiencing the same problems?

Greed brought about by unions and demanding more than their worth I feel is responsible for many of the problems we are facing now. Setting aside the cost of living in the different areas for a minute, why should a union shop get twice+ the pay for doing the same job as a non union shop?

And furthermore...Keep our tax dollars HERE!!!!!!

Off my box now.

I couldn't agree with you more. as a small manufacturer we have had unions try to do runs on us a few times. we have always managed to get past it. But if they succeeded I would shut down.

 

[martin14]

just wanted to touch on the European - US thing for a bit.
seen both sides, Candian living in Europe for 10 years now.

General assumption in the US is most European cars are crap (except BMW and Mercedes).
General assumption in Europe is that most American cars are crap.

Funny, isnt it ?

One issue is price; american cars are sold here at European prices, which is to say about DOUBLE the price in America.
Someone is making a lot of extra money here.. euro govts and tariffs yes,
but I'll bet the company is making lots of extra as well.
If the big 3 could sell American cars here for an American price, they would sell like mad, but they can't.

one example, Ford Focus.. sold in the US and Europe. But the reality is that these are not the same cars.
A Euro Focus has different features and setups, and to sell a European Focus
in the States, it would cost double.. so its very difficult to compare
these two markets.

got a quart of Spectro for the primary on my HD.. 20 euros, about 35$ USD.
I guessing thats twice the price in the US, if not more.

But now here is the weird part... Japanese cars in Europe are fairly rare.

I would guess the share of market for Japanese is about 10%

In the US, its what these days... 40%.. 45%.. 50% ????

Havent found an answer for that one...
maybe the Europeans are more nationalistic/patriotic than Americans ?
or maybe just more conservative..

As far as the bail out goes, it becomes a bit like AIG I think.
it would be too expensive to not do it.

 

[Irish Hog]

How is a bike a luxury item? I see them as a practical way of getting around and saving fuel.

The whole problem here is once you start bailing out companies, when will it end?

I will tell you how. It is going to be hard to convince the public that a $30K Harley with 10K extra in parts and Chrome is a practical means of transportation. This is how they will see it. I am sorry to have to say this, but I know with myself, my bike is a luxury item. It is the last thing I would sell, but if I had to, I would sell my motorcycle before I sold my car..

It is unfair to say they got the money so why can't we. But the auto industry is a big deal, considering that 1 in 10 are connected some how to the auto industry and not to mention that it is a matter of national security, if the big 3 go under, this country is going to be in bad shape. The great depression is going to look like a Hawaiian vacation if the big three fold.

. Sure, the banks would suffer, but they are the ones who are really responsible for all of this mess. Interest only loans, loaning out 125% of the homes value, burying people in horrible adjustable rates, what the heck did they think was going to happen??

Okay, stepping down again.

The economy should have been slowed down a long time before this mess got out of control. I was talking to a accountant about 7 years ago and he explained to me then, about everything that is happening now. It was like he had a crystal ball. He said that people that could barley afford thier rent were getting tangled up in this fixed rate mortgages with 0 down. He said when these rates jump in 5-10 years these people are going to lose thier homes and it is going to spread across the nation and put this country in bad shape. So if people like this saw this coming, why did nobody else see it. You can also blame it on greed, people going out buying ten houses and trying to take advantage of hard working people by renting these homes at outrages prices. So in the end someone ultimately has to fix this mess and that someone is the government and if they don't, we are in for some real hard times, real hard!!

 

[eleft36]

Well, check labels. If we wanted to buy only American made we would not be able to buy new any thing.

It sounds like all posters on this thread are employees, that is getting W_2's

Where's the schedule C people? , the one's that sign the checks.

Some times the accounting scheme "bankruptcy" is beneficial

As the stock market calls it, when they stumble, "correction"

I was a small business operator for 42 years. Been retired for 10, so I'm on the side lines just watchin'

Al

 

[MrSpringer]

When i bought my union made HD i bought it with union earned money
Earned in a union shop, with the intentions of helping my union brothers and sisters working in the union HD plants. God bless america and god bless the union.......