Jagg / HD/ or other

[glider]

In general I agree with the keep it simple philosophy. However, not in this case. If the thermostat fails open, it's like having the cooler with no thermostat. If it fails close, it's like having no cooler. Little risk either way. I'd say the benefits far outweigh the minor risk.

Have I been working too hard or is that backwards?

If the T'stat fails to open, the cooler isn't in the loop.

If it fails to close, you're cooling cold oil.

 

[Sharky1948]

By "open" I meant that oil would flow through it to the cooler and vice versa. Maybe I'm confused about where the thermostat is in the loop. I defer to the Head Harley Honcho.:worthy

 

[flh canuck]

Unless someone here convinces me otherwise, I will not get the thermostat. Even Jagg says they are not needed. Seems to me if they fail you can have serious consequences, but there is no need for one in the first place. As far as engine heating up, I can't see where this would affect that at all. I never have heard of a HD V Twin running too cool or having any problem warming up. If I am off base let me know as I want to do it right the first time. I want as little chance for failure as possibe and unless there is good reason for the thermostat I would rather not have it.
Thanks.

First off, I apologize for the long-winded reply but as a professional mechanic, I know that there is a lot of confusion and miss-informaton out there about this topic.

You've spent a lot of money on your motorcycle and as you have stated, you want to do it right the first time. Hopefully this information is of some use to you in deciding what is best for your type of riding.

I'm not familliar with any serious consequences caused by a thermostat failure in this type of application. Either it could stick closed which is like having no oil cooler, or it could stick open which is like having no thermostat.

As far as the engine not heating up, its more a concern about the oil not coming up to operating temperature if you run a cooler without a thermostat. Especially if the ambient outside air temperture is fairly cool.

As Glider said, the engine oil needs to come up to temperature to burn off the moisture caused by condensation in the crankcase. 212 degrees is the boiling point of water, so the oil needs to get hot enough to boil off that moisture.

Just as in automotive applications, the Harley Davidson engine is designed to operate best within a certain temperature range and so is the oil. This is why automotive applications all use thermostats to reduce the coolant flow until the engine comes up to operating temperture. Although air/oil cooled engines are a different kettle of fish, the same operating principles still apply.

Also Glider said, if you are doing mostly long hauls, the thermostat is probably not an issue. The type of climate you live in and type of riding you do will dictate whether or not you need a thermostat.

I live up in the banana belt known as Canada so I need a thermostat because on cooler mornings, I have found that the thermostat doesn't even open up, especially after a highway ride with lots of air-flow over the engine.

If I lived in the Southern USA where the ambient air temperature never drops below 80 or 90 degrees , I probably wouldn't bother with a thermostat.

Also on this topic, there is an article written by Donny Peterson about oil coolers in the current issue of American Iron Magazine. He has probably forgotten more that I will ever know about Harleys so it would be worth reading if you can get your hands on one. Cheers!:cheers

 

[Subby]

I have an /09 Ultra as well and was thinking of getting an oil cooler for next summer. Certainly don't need one most of the time here on the west coast but I do like to tour in Utah, Nevada, etc. and I also pull a small camping trailer. Sounds like the HD one might be the way to go.

 

[flh canuck]

I have an /09 Ultra as well and was thinking of getting an oil cooler for next summer. Certainly don't need one most of the time here on the west coast but I do like to tour in Utah, Nevada, etc. and I also pull a small camping trailer. Sounds like the HD one might be the way to go.

I would install one, especially if you are going to be pulling a trailer down south. Of interest, I finally read the Donny Peterson article I mentioned earlier and according to their comparison, the Jagg cooler is the better product.

Both the Harley and Jagg coolers provide the same level of heat reduction but according to the specs published in the article, the Jagg cooler has less oil pressure drop through the cooler. The difference is relatively small but is worth considering none the less.

I live over in Maple Ridge and with our climate up here, I would definitely go with the thermostat model.

These coolers are very efficient and as I tried to explain earlier, you want your engine and engine oil to warm up to its optimum operating temperature as quickly as possible for best engine operation and longetivity.

 

[09ultra]

OK, now I am confused. All I know is I am definetely getting a Jagg. At least I know that for sure. To temp or not to temp... that is the question. I think I will save my money and go without. I live in a warmer area and see no need to have one to ensure warm up. I rarely ride less than 10 miles. Other than that issue there is no reason to have one from what I am reading. I will wait till warmer weather anyway so I have time to decide. Thanks everybody. Good reading here.

 

[09ultra]

Smitty,
I just (yesterday) put in Mobil One V Twin oil in the crank and SPECTRO Platinum 6 Speed full Syn tranny fluid for my 1000 service. Got that covered. Also installed TFI with Screaming Eagle AF with Jack Pot slip on pipes.

 

[flh canuck]

OK, now I am confused. All I know is I am definetely getting a Jagg. At least I know that for sure. To temp or not to temp... that is the question. I think I will save my money and go without. I live in a warmer area and see no need to have one to ensure warm up. I rarely ride less than 10 miles. Other than that issue there is no reason to have one from what I am reading. I will wait till warmer weather anyway so I have time to decide. Thanks everybody. Good reading here.

Don't worry about the confusion, its all part of the learning process.

I too would opt for the Jagg cooler based on what I have learned. As far as the thermostat, if you only ride in warm weather then don't worry about it.

Jagg makes a good product but the claim in their FAQ about not needing a thermostat should be taken with a grain of salt as there are many variables and it largely depends on the type of climate you live in and type of riding you intend to do.

Of interest, the oil cooler on the 110" CVO also uses a thermostat and I'm pretty sure the HD engineers have gotten the "facts" in spite of some people would have you believe.

In any case, your engine will thank you for adding an oil cooler. Good luck and enjoy the ride.

 

[biscuit]

Too true,Blue!Over here in this wide harsh brown land with ambient temps getting up towards 40 degrees c,i think an oil cooler is a must.My Honda had one,my Suzuki had one,my Kawasaki had one,my Mazda has one and so do all automatic cars sold here.(For the tranny,that is.)And now our Harley's have one.3 in fact.One each.We fitted the H-D coolers at point of sale,especially after reading all those tales of hot running Harleys.

These H-D lumps make beaucoup heat and if you live in a hot clime,then surely it makes sense to provide extra cooling capacity for your engine.An oil cooler provides extra surface area to allow dispersion of heat,even if the bike is not moving.And a thermostat helps that process by regulating oil flow through your cooler.

Oil coolers are like love:it's better to have tried to cool,than never to have cooled at all.

 

[bellacoolabilly]

Has anyone heard of the Bad Boy® Super Cooler by Motorcycle Innovations? It looks like it is a little sturdier in design than the JAGG cooler. I plan on doing some riding in the southern USA next year and was thinking about putting one of these on. Any thoughts....?