Micro tuner vs. PV

[rusntx]

Dobeck seems to be a little slow answering questions here,you may want to call them direct. They have tec support that will help with any questions you may have. They also bench set their tuners for your specific mods.

Yep, planning to call tomorrow. Was reading the info on their website sure seems like the ticket for me. Not to mention the favorable reviews here on our forum. Boy as a vet any company that supports our active military or veteran community has my vote! Look forward to chatting with them.

 

[Jeff Klarich]

Good deal, like tourbox said make sure you tell them you're a member of HDTimeline so you get the member discount.:s

 

[dolt]

Sorry I know this has been beat to death likely. Upgrading to Stage 1 mod are my only plans. Mainly for a heat reduction. Not looking to squeeze every ounce of power out of motor. Plenty power for me currently. Don't care to manipulate rev settings or play with mapping etc. any harm in taking O2 sensors out, run the micro tune instead of the PV? Will be adding power duals, and A/C to my super trap stouts. Can save some bucks also. Thx much

The DJ micro tuner from Fule Moto will come "pre-mapped" so all the user has to do is install and wire up the unit. If the map is close, all should be good; doesn't happen the first time for many users. Fuel mileage suffers, cold start issues exhibit, decal popping exhibit, etc. and the user must call Fule Moto for a tweaked map to upload to eliminate the issues; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

The Dobeck unit comes with suggested settings; same process if the provided settings don't produce the desired results, Dobeck customer service can make suggestions for revising settings or the user can start to experiment.

My point is that considering the above and the OPs aversion to "hands on" when it comes to working with the system, a fuel management system that will allow a dyno tune might be a better solution. The TTS Mastertune or DJ Powervision might cost a bit more plus the additional cost of a dyno tune but the advantage is tune once and be done without any third party assistance and trial and error tuning as well as the optimized performance of a dyno tune plus the advantage of having a system capable of accommodating future performance upgrades. I know, the OP says "Upgrading to Stage 1 mod are my only plans"; how many times have we heard that.:small3d002:

As usual, JMHO.:s

 

[Jeff Klarich]

The DJ micro tuner from Fule Moto will come "pre-mapped" so all the user has to do is install and wire up the unit. If the map is close, all should be good; doesn't happen the first time for many users. Fuel mileage suffers, cold start issues exhibit, decal popping exhibit, etc. and the user must call Fule Moto for a tweaked map to upload to eliminate the issues; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

The Dobeck unit comes with suggested settings; same process if the provided settings don't produce the desired results, Dobeck customer service can make suggestions for revising settings or the user can start to experiment.

My point is that considering the above and the OPs aversion to "hands on" when it comes to working with the system, a fuel management system that will allow a dyno tune might be a better solution. The TTS Mastertune or DJ Powervision might cost a bit more plus the additional cost of a dyno tune but the advantage is tune once and be done without any third party assistance and trial and error tuning as well as the optimized performance of a dyno tune plus the advantage of having a system capable of accommodating future performance upgrades. I know, the OP says "Upgrading to Stage 1 mod are my only plans"; how many times have we heard that.:small3d002:

As usual, JMHO.:s

Agreed Don, especially the last sentence.:newsmile100:

 

[kstrohs57]

My buddy and I have Identical '07 Electra Glides. We both have Doebeck tuners. Mine requires the O2 sensors to be by-passed, his uses the O2 sensors.
He bought his Doebeck a year after I bought mine.

Just a question ? How does a tuner adjust to altitude from say Ohio where elevation is say 750-1,000' to Colorado where the altitude maybe 6,000' with out the oxogen sensors .
My 13 limited has the screaming eagle pro tuner with oxogen sensors that should compensate for altitude changes - correct ??

 

[Jeff Klarich]

Just a question ? How does a tuner adjust to altitude from say Ohio where elevation is say 750-1,000' to Colorado where the altitude maybe 6,000' with out the oxogen sensors .
My 13 limited has the screaming eagle pro tuner with oxogen sensors that should compensate for altitude changes - correct ??

I live in Colorado at 5400 ft, Talking with my tuner he said and I've also read that the onboard computer makes the necessary changes to adjust for the conditions your in. You still may want to have the pro tuner adjusted when you make a drastic change in altitude tho.

 

[dolt]

Just a question ? How does a tuner adjust to altitude from say Ohio where elevation is say 750-1,000' to Colorado where the altitude maybe 6,000' with out the oxogen sensors. My 13 limited has the screaming eagle pro tuner with oxogen sensors that should compensate for altitude changes - correct ??

I will offer a low tech explanation of the effect of altitude on performance.

A speed-density tuner, like the SEPST, TTS and Powervision will adjust to ambient conditions, i.e., lower atmospheric pressure. However, the air at altitude is less dense which requires less fuel. The tuner will adjust so the AFR is the same at altitude as it was at a lower altitude but there is less of it available for combustion at altitude. Combine that with the drop in CCP and the motor just doesn't have the guts that it has at lower altitude; smaller "boom" in the combustion chamber = loss in power. The upside is that fuel mileage will improve. That is why you will not see 91 octane fuel in Denver; all 87 and 89 as the higher octane is not required. Comprende?
I have traveled from south Texas to Denver several times on both my EFI '05 Deuce and my '02 carbed FLHT. The EFI bike definitely exhibits a loss of power at altitude but the CV carbed FL is immune to altitude changes. I would never alter a tune to travel to altitude but if I moved to a higher altitude, say even from 600' where I am to the Texas panhandle at 3200', I would re-tune the EFI bike. The carbed bike could probably benefit from some ignition map tweaks, i.e., more timing but no fuel adjustments would be required.:s

 

[Jeff Klarich]

I will offer a low tech explanation of the effect of altitude on performance.

A speed-density tuner, like the SEPST, TTS and Powervision will adjust to ambient conditions, i.e., lower atmospheric pressure. However, the air at altitude is less dense which requires less fuel. The tuner will adjust so the AFR is the same at altitude as it was at a lower altitude but there is less of it available for combustion at altitude. Combine that with the drop in CCP and the motor just doesn't have the guts that it has at lower altitude; smaller "boom" in the combustion chamber = loss in power. The upside is that fuel mileage will improve. That is why you will not see 91 octane fuel in Denver; all 87 and 89 as the higher octane is not required. Comprende?
I have traveled from south Texas to Denver several times on both my EFI '05 Deuce and my '02 carbed FLHT. The EFI bike definitely exhibits a loss of power at altitude but the CV carbed FL is immune to altitude changes. I would never alter a tune to travel to altitude but if I moved to a higher altitude, say even from 600' where I am to the Texas panhandle at 3200', I would re-tune the EFI bike. The carbed bike could probably benefit from some ignition map tweaks, i.e., more timing but no fuel adjustments would be required.:s

Not sure when you last visited my fare state Don but I'm happy to report we made it out of the stone ages, you can get 91 octane at all stations here. I tried 87 in my scoot once and it sounded like a bag of marbles, haven't tried 89 octane yet. I do all my riding from 5200 ft to around 10,000 ft and my tune seems to adjust well to the altitude. I only question 1 thing you said about carbureted engines and altitude. Everyone I know who runs a carb had to rejet because of altitude, the common complaint was no power and generally running badly, the higher they went the more they lost power. After rejetting problem was solved. I could understand if it we're 1 or 2 but it was everyone and that also pertains to carbureted cars as well. My new neighbor who moved from AZ has a couple of carbed sport bikes and they sound like John Dear tractors when he fires them up. The only common denominator here is altitude and carbs, injected cars and bikes adjust well.

 

[rusntx]

Agreed Don, especially the last sentence.:newsmile100:

I appreciate the additional info dolt and jeff. Once upon a time I enjoyed tinkering with tuning be it on old Chevy pickups or my Triumph Tophy or T100. Don't mind doing routine maintenance etc but fiddling with the ECM and tuning just doesn't appeal to me as much. Just want it to run a it better and cooler. Heck buying all the add on dodads wreaks havoc on the bank account can't imagine cams and all that good stuff too! as always I thank you for you advice and input.

By the way I spoken to the fine folks at Dobeck today. Very nice and helpful, oh and they also answered my PM as well. So for this interested they are out there and offering hdtlakinf and veteran discounts. Be well all.

 

[dolt]

Not sure when you last visited my fare state Don but I'm happy to report we made it out of the stone ages, you can get 91 octane at all stations here. I tried 87 in my scoot once and it sounded like a bag of marbles, haven't tried 89 octane yet. I do all my riding from 5200 ft to around 10,000 ft and my tune seems to adjust well to the altitude. I only question 1 thing you said about carbureted engines and altitude. Everyone I know who runs a carb had to rejet because of altitude, the common complaint was no power and generally running badly, the higher they went the more they lost power. After rejetting problem was solved. I could understand if it we're 1 or 2 but it was everyone and that also pertains to carbureted cars as well. My new neighbor who moved from AZ has a couple of carbed sport bikes and they sound like John Dear tractors when he fires them up. The only common denominator here is altitude and carbs, injected cars and bikes adjust well.

Well Jeff, it has years since I have ridden or driven to Colorado; have family in Littleton. Perhaps I just wasn't paying attention the last time I was in up that way but I just recalled not seeing 91 octane everywhere like in Texas.

As for the carb comment, I am referring to the Keihin CV carb. Most sport bikes run Mikunis or cable operated Keihins, not the CV version. As you must know, cars are not carbureted with constant velocity carbs; those would certainly require rejetting. I will bet you a six pack if you head down this way, your bike will run better at 600' than it does at 5200'. I also said that if traveling through various altitudes one might not notice the power loss; it doesn't really exhibit except at WOT. I don't retune my bike for altitude on a trip but, like I said, if I moved to Littleton, I can assure you that my EFI 95" Deuce will not show the same power on the dyno that it does down here; just not physically possible. The 195CCP would probably drop to 170 and the compression loss alone would impact performance. I would also notice a drop in performance with the carbed bike for the same reason and would expect that I would have to tweak timing but there wouldn't be any tuning remedy for the compression loss.