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My Cams experience 2010 flhtk pratical this vs that

Billua said:
Curious, did you also install the 4 degree advance wheel?
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No I installed the standard tw-6-6....I called fuelmoto and they recommended standard cam.....after I installed it and told them of my experience....then they recommended the 4 degree advance said it would move the torque curve 500 rpms to the left on the sheet......500 wasn't far enough for me.....I cut my losses and went with the SE 255 and couldn't be happier; although fuelmoto was great to work with...good company.......I said above I ordered the 255's but I really rode to daytona from Savannah Georgia and bought them from Bruce Rossmeyer's in Ormond Beach...they had them in stock......it was a nice ride.....

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glen073 said:
How do they behave at top end? Do you lose any power up high, or does it at least stay the same as the stock cam? I was also wondering how much labor HD had for the install. I've been leaning towards the same cam. I already have the V&H Power Duels and Monster Ovals with the PC-V from Fuel Moto.
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the SE 255's for me are a lot stronger up top....at 75 in 6th gear I roll on the throttle and it moves.....stock I'd have to drop a gear to pass......

I read many posts on other forums about the SE255 giving up in the higher rpm range...but it hasn't been my experience....it was at least as strong up high as the TW6-6.......the thing I realized quickly is that I had to run the TW6-6 up higher because I was still trying to get the weight of the bike to move since it was so weak down low.....I didn't need to wind out the 255s to redline because it flat out got the bike moving quickly....I could shift sooner and I think for this reason the 255s will probably be much easier on the motor over the life of the bike......

I used adjustable pushrods when I initally went with the tw-6-6s.....it was combined with the 5k serivce and pipes install....so labor for that alone I don't know....when I went back in for the SE255's....I can't honestly say what the cost of the cams install was because I had it combined with hogtunes ultra kit install, black fork lowers and cow bells....my total bill for labor out the door with all that done + cams and dyno tune....was a little over 600....
 
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I have 255's in my 2009 Tri-Glide they do real well also performance slip-ons and stage 1 air filter. Does anyone know if V&H Power Duels and ovals would help it any.
 
BUBBIE's install

My SE 255 Cams install went EASY.. Hardest part is to get the exhaust off the 09 FLHR.. Started to Just loosen but OFF totally is the way to go..
I sniped the old push-rods out and went with the fully adjustable slender tapered SE from HD,,,,,NICE!

I read an article that inspired Steve07 to install SE254 cams in his 103" motor and using the 4*+- gear to LOWER (earlier) his Closing of the INTAKE Valves...
The SE 254's Intake valves Closes Later (bigger number) than the SE 255 does so the 4* gear is needed to LOWER this number... He states He can LIFT the front wheel OFF the ground in 1 and 2 gears by a twist of the throttle..:rofl GO Stve07 GO! ....YAHOO!

When I was reading the information on the cams I wanted to install,,,,,, I Looked When the intake CLOSES and that number should be close to 30*.....
LOOK at the bigger (meaning More duration) Cams and compare the closing of the intake Valve..... Later closing show Bigger numbers.... If it says intake valve closes at 37 or higher, the 4* gear is needed TO LOWER the closing number on the INTAKE Valve... THUS MORE LOW END TORQUE.....
Now Mind You, YOU ARE changing the WHOLE cams intended engineering,,,, so careful here... That is why YOU want to buy the Cams to do the Low End Torque in the first place....

On the SE255 cams that I installed, I would ONLY use the 4* to make MY valve number Close Later (bigger than 20*).... in other words, MY thoughts were to RAISE the degree that the Intake valve closes to Move UP my RPM power band.....(=Less low end torque).....

Now mind you This Is Just To TRY... When??? MUCH later cause I ALSO am happy with Where It Is Right Now.(.) HANG ON with Both Hands!

Steve07 article is a good read and He may POST a link to it here... I'll try to look it up and add it also if he doesn't....

It is easy to see the difference in Cams by LOOKING at the """intake closing""" values to see if IT is a HIGH RPM or LOW RPM cam , in developing Torque....

Yes there IS more to the cam than Just the intake closing,,, But that is the KEY for Torque at the LOW END RPM....

When you Raise the CLOSING of the intake valve (adding Higher numbers over 30*) You can get More Low End Torque only by ADDING Higher Compression so IT is a Trade Off....

The SE 255 cams Close intake at 20*(now that is Early) and that IS For Low End Torque...
I thought to TRY the 4* in REVERSE to make the valve close Later...(loosing low end torque) but the more I study this approach the Less I Think it will Accomplish anything but Move the RPM and Torque Ratio UP a bit and that is NOT what I'm looking for in my Heavy bike...

Hope this Helps some of you out in understanding the Hows and Whens for low end torque..

signed....BUBBIE
 
I'm just the opposite. Dumped my 255's and went with Wood TW-7H's and some stage 3 heads. Power gain was unreal. I have a feeling your map choice was way off base. My scoot pulls from 2K to redline now and before (with the 255's) it dropped off much earlier. For most the 255's are fine....not for me. Autotune is the way to go if you like to mess with your bike like I do.
 
One thing to keep in mind...MOCO has a HUGE R&D facility and has been researching a lot of different grinds for a host of different reasons and applications. Race bikes only have to survive a brief weekends' worth of HI RPM continuous up and down power train stresses that "shouldn't occur" over a street machines' lifetime which is considerably longer. A radical cam requiring more engine compression also means you have to beef up your starter (how often does a race bike have to be restarted?) and need higher octane gas.

So looking at the numbers in Smitty's chart the 255 looks to be in the "sweet spot" between torque, and top end power...! Who wants that extra 15% when it will grenade the engine or make you have to build up a whole lot of stuff to keep the longevity at a descent level. JMO...Dyno numbers are fine, but most of us on the street run their bikes at more modest RPMs and would rather have "roll on" power rather than constantly rowing the gear box. Been there and I still say "Torque Wins"! I like what Steve07 says, if the front wheel lifts easily in 1st or 2nd gear...that works for me! :D
 
There most definately are higher performance cams out there than the SE 255's. I don't think most people riding a 900 pound touring bike want to be revving it up to 6500 and running through the gears, unless they REALLY want an extra burst of power or speed. I know some people will, but I didn't. I spent a big chunk of change on my new bike and wanted it to perform well, but if I want to go fast I just hop on my son's 06 SE VROD. It has different air filter, pipes and a PC III and I haven't come across a touring bike made by any manufacturer that runs as hard as it does. All around the 255 is a good performance gain that won't void your warranty, will make your bike perform better and doesn't force you to do costly valve train mods or make huge major timing or fuel changes. I totally agree with tire smoke and think he made a great choice.
 
Im still learning about cams and such. So bear with me. The following I have in my trike that I built.

Ultima 113ci

Gear ratios for the 5 speed trans in my trike

1st - 3.24
2nd- 2.21
3rd- 1.60
4th- 1.23
5th- 1.00

113ci MW264 cam 1.69 rocker arm ratio
Timing info is Open/Close @ .053
Int - 24/60 264 Dur Lift .640 TDC .218 Lobe center 108
Ex - 68/20 268 Dur Lift .600 TDC .200 Lobe Center 114
Lobe Sep 111 Over Lap 44

Compression - 10.2:1
Rated Power RW- 120hp 120tq


Baseline Jetting Suggestions

Mikuni 45mm 175/27.5

The cam - MW264 cam INT - 24/60
As I understand it. Im getting my power on this beast around 70 mph on. Id like to lower that. Id like it more of a mid range. Forgive me if Im using the wrong terminology.

Fuel economy is fine when I cruse at 55 to 65. Anything faster and my gas consumption increases. What cam should I slap in there that would give me my power at a more mid range than whats in there now?

zoood
 
This is an interesting thread. I am running the Woods TW6-6, although I did look at the 255 as well. One of the things that has struck me, is the varying applications that either of these cams is used in. For instance, many riders seem to have differing opinions of what revs they prefer to be using. This is understandable, but as the gearing has changed over the years, so has the characteristic of the engine itself. Surely the 255 in an '06 tourer is going to give different 'seat of the pants' results than the same cam in a 2010 tourer? The same could be said of any cam, couldn't it?

I'm certainly not saying that one cam is better than another, because I haven't tried them, but riding style and the different gearing must make a difference. In my case, much of my touring is high speed freeway stuff, until I get to my destination and my engine seems happiest at about 2800 rpm whether with the stock cam or the TW6. I ended up with the Woods cam because I got a smoking deal on it, lol.
 
I've still got the tw6-6 cams that came out off my flhtk...only 500 miles on them if someone is looking for another smoking deal.....
 
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