how do you think they put the down load into the ECM Straydog they use the SE street tuner or pro race tuner to talk to the ECM and hand you either a black or orange box which is then married to the ECM of the bike - so dealer download is a tuner of sorts its just done by the dealer, and saves you having to buy the $150 cables and $40 CD unless of course you have the urge to play with the mulitiple settings within the ECm then get the Race tuner - so yes i know this isn't about tuners or such like but is about engine tuning and tuners have been mentioned multiple times, oh and please re read my thread - my comments don mention which is better or so on it answers the OP question and some of the other said quiries other bring up multiple times
Question
- Thread starter fxdc1951
- Start date
I'm getting dizzy from the talking in circles going on in this thread. OP didn't ask for a tuner or dyno recommendation - he wants to know if the dealer download alone will result in long term damage to his bike. I think we will all admit that the simple answer to that question is "no." There are probably tens of thousands of stock HD's on the road with many happy miles on them - no engine mods of any kind. But like most forums that specialize in anything mechanical, we attract the type of person who likes to tinker with and modify/customize their machine. These types wouldn't even consider leaving their bikes stock. As it's been said over and over and over - YOUR RIDE, YOU DECIDE.
Here's my simplistic way of looking at the whole Stage I scenario:
1. Bike on the showroom floor is lean due to EPA rules
2. Modify the pipes and/or air filter and bike runs even leaner
3. Dealer download returns bike to step 1
If you are happy at this point, ride bike off into the sunset with huge smile on your face
If you want an increase in performance or further engine cooling, then go to step 4
4. Tuner of your choice further reduces the lean status of your engine - some tuners allow you to tinker to your heart's content and really dial things in
5. If you don't think you're good at the tinkering in step 4, find a trusted mechanic to adjust everything on a dyno
Here's my simplistic way of looking at the whole Stage I scenario:
1. Bike on the showroom floor is lean due to EPA rules
2. Modify the pipes and/or air filter and bike runs even leaner
3. Dealer download returns bike to step 1
If you are happy at this point, ride bike off into the sunset with huge smile on your face
If you want an increase in performance or further engine cooling, then go to step 4
4. Tuner of your choice further reduces the lean status of your engine - some tuners allow you to tinker to your heart's content and really dial things in
5. If you don't think you're good at the tinkering in step 4, find a trusted mechanic to adjust everything on a dyno
Sorry I'm done, the download load is perfect and the bikes run correctly as do the stage 1 "dealer downloads" if that's how.people want to name it it keeps the EPA happy and the green teams when.in.closed loop by keeping the engine at 14.6/7 but when you go WOT, it adds correct fuel and.alters.the.timing and other parameters, but still allows the use of the O2 sensors for normal run of the mill riding 15 on.the afr is lean!!! And no map or stock harley is.like this - sorry I will keep knowledge off the forum as all it seem so.get is shouted down
Best answer yet! Thank you. Sorry I created so much drama.............people claiming I'm angry......apparently making other people angry......wow................
anyway......thanks again.
stray dog
Junior Member
Well said Dr. D :s
It is my understanding they can reflash your ecm for a stage1 set up WITH OUT a tuner being added. That is what this thread is about. :newsmile07:
It is my understanding they can reflash your ecm for a stage1 set up WITH OUT a tuner being added. That is what this thread is about. :newsmile07:
Sorry I'm done, the download load is perfect and the bikes run correctly as do the stage 1 "dealer downloads" if that's how.people want to name it it keeps the EPA happy and the green teams when.in.closed loop by keeping the engine at 14.6/7 but when you go WOT, it adds correct fuel and.alters.the.timing and other parameters, but still allows the use of the O2 sensors for normal run of the mill riding 15 on.the afr is lean!!! And no map or stock harley is.like this - sorry I will keep knowledge off the forum as all it seem so.get is shouted down
Thanks, hobbit........I, for one, appreciated your thoughts.............tough crowd in here, I guess. :newsmile07:
stray dog
Junior Member
Sorry I'm done, the download load is perfect and the bikes run correctly as do the stage 1 "dealer downloads" if that's how.people want to name it it keeps the EPA happy and the green teams when.in.closed loop by keeping the engine at 14.6/7 but when you go WOT, it adds correct fuel and.alters.the.timing and other parameters, but still allows the use of the O2 sensors for normal run of the mill riding 15 on.the afr is lean!!! And no map or stock harley is.like this - sorry I will keep knowledge off the forum as all it seem so.get is shouted down
Hobbit,
Most of us agree with you and I'm in no way shouting down your opinions or your thoughts on anything. :newsmile07:
I know but its the constant comments that they are lean from the factory - they are not Science proves this - regardless of whether its water cooled or air cooled.
if they were lean they would pink and rattle and you would be burning valves and holes in the pistons , I've yet to see a stock harley or any of my stage 4 monsters do this.
AFR is only a small apart of the map and why so many state giving the dealer money is a waste - this is what really grates . if it aint broke why fix it and if it works why fix it , a dealer download is what how much $150 ??? dunno as i say UK dealer do not do this - $150 is still less than ANY tuner out there and works so use it, HD don't spend millions developing engine maps that are going to destroy engines. and again they are NOT LEAN, its because we've mostly grown up on Carbs and they were rich running.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I believe the vast majority would disagree with your assessment on lean conditions or lack of with Harleys. Most use fuelers for 2 reasons, richen them up a bit which helps cool them down.
Jeff not an opinion it's scientific fact, and there is loads on the Web and journals about it. I agree most like to richen the mixture but just blithely stating they are lean is incorrect, they are leaner they used to be agreed but dangerously lean NO, engine damaging lean again NO, even at 15 afr they are not damaging and your economy will go sky high With very little lack of performance. Blithely adding fuel without other alterations can also cause issue specially if the VE and spark tables are.not.altered correctly. So if.my opinion / fact is not appreciated I will as stated previously no longer comment on engine tuning or.what tuner flash is right, I will just happily thrash my HD knowing it's tuned correctly and running 14.6 afr with correct VE, spark and.so.forth and in closed loop is efficient and economic and put.of.closed loop is effective enough to destroy sports bikes upto 120/130