Be nice if you could get the builder to swap cams sets. Bummer they are out of town. Midwest I think you said. Like Cap Jack suggested maybe to much cam. Your 06 is a 5 speed transmission and you will find that you will always be looking for that extra gear with your current build.Six speed trans will be your next want. Hard to believe Sam couldn't get the dyno right. He actually is pretty good at it.
rebuild issue
- Thread starter hargun2
- Start date
Sam and Jim at Salt Lake Harley spent all day on the dyno (thanks guys) but could not get that miss/stutter tuned out. Basically they said the same things you guys are about lift, valve durations, vaccumm, ect, ect. Of course the builder says SL doesn't have the skill base to do the tune for me and he will not change the cam out to something more stree-able. I'll be sure to spread the word.......
BUBBIE
Well-Known Member
I went gear drive, 570SS cams, 95" at 10.25/1 pistons, head-valve-spring work on a 2000 FXDS, a much lighter bike.. I wanted to have MID and upper range but NOT loose the low end totally... and that I got....
Now on your HEAVY bike, I would think a Different cam of lower torque and beginning RPM values should of been used.
Nothing wrong with the BIGGER cam but Bigger is NOT always Better.... As You Have Found Out.
I would go the LESSER cam and be done with it.(.)
Look to see where the RPM Band is on WHAT-ever cam you decide on and go with that... The rest of the engine work will do fine with MANY options on CAMS. No Problem there.
You have the basic things done to that motor and I would JUST go with a LOWER TORQUE cam and toss out the BIG one you have..
I can see where the builder went wrong with the cam.. IF,,, IF,,,YOU stated the riding habit of yours as you did here, They made a big mistake by using that CAM..(.)
I took advantage of the SS570's G.... (lighter bike) and I didn't go with the SS585 as the RPM (cam duration was more) went to a HIGHER band for the cams to Come On.
RPM is the KEY for You here = duration values and when the Cam Comes ON need to correspond
I would JUST go with a LOW TORQUE cam set-up and try to sell the gear drives you have.
With what you have done to the motor NOW, IT should be a bear when the RIGHT torque Cams are in there...
Bigger is NOT always Better!
signed....BUBBIE
I went gear drive, 570SS cams, 95" at 10.25/1 pistons, head-valve-spring work on a 2000 FXDS, a much lighter bike.. I wanted to have MID and upper range but NOT loose the low end totally... and that I got....
Now on your HEAVY bike, I would think a Different cam of lower torque and beginning RPM values should of been used.
Nothing wrong with the BIGGER cam but Bigger is NOT always Better.... As You Have Found Out.
I would go the LESSER cam and be done with it.(.)
Look to see where the RPM Band is on WHAT-ever cam you decide on and go with that... The rest of the engine work will do fine with MANY options on CAMS. No Problem there.
You have the basic things done to that motor and I would JUST go with a LOWER TORQUE cam and toss out the BIG one you have..
I can see where the builder went wrong with the cam.. IF,,, IF,,,YOU stated the riding habit of yours as you did here, They made a big mistake by using that CAM..(.)
I took advantage of the SS570's G.... (lighter bike) and I didn't go with the SS585 as the RPM (cam duration was more) went to a HIGHER band for the cams to Come On.
RPM is the KEY for You here = duration values and when the Cam Comes ON need to correspond
I would JUST go with a LOW TORQUE cam set-up and try to sell the gear drives you have.
With what you have done to the motor NOW, IT should be a bear when the RIGHT torque Cams are in there...
Bigger is NOT always Better!
signed....BUBBIE
Go with what Bubbie said. Cams are a lot but not everything. I had 585 S&S geardrives, ported polished heads, Black Diamond valves, 95ci 10:25-1 high compression pistons, and a complete Hooker Exhaust. Backed by a Powercommander 3. It was fun but never beat Joe Timmons drag bike.
BUBBIE
Well-Known Member
You have GOOD up-grades and could go with many cams.. The compression ratio right now is going to be a little high for the regular small cams.
I was happy with the SS570G on my build but like I mentioned Lighter Bike..
Still think you can go with Most any of the cams that call out 10 to one compression ratio.. Starting motor with Less duration cams (holds more pressure at start in cylinder) may be a New Problem after you change out the cams..
I would go to SE cams to take a look... Some times Milder at the intake...
The lower the number on the intake valve value (close) the more torque..
Staying around 30* in your case a little above because of the added compression but not over 36* is a must in my book...
make sure you get the cam that OPERATES in YOUR RPM level and Riding Style.
signed....BUBBIE
I know nothing about fuelmoto system. Can you connect your computer up and try to add 3% fuel to the place where you say that it stumbles. I thought you said 15 to 20 % throttle range. Just a thought that you are not getting enough fuel off the get go thus making it stumble. Maybe.
Looking in the V-Twin Parts book, just a little bit of difference between the S&S 570 and the S&S 585 cam sets, just a little. I had a hoot on my 06 Ultra and the extra weight factor the 585 seemed to pull just fine. Are you two up on your bike? Who is doing your cam install? Also I have a set of new in the box roller rockers and shafts if you would be interested. Your build, your bike. Let us know as you have our attention.
Looking in the V-Twin Parts book, just a little bit of difference between the S&S 570 and the S&S 585 cam sets, just a little. I had a hoot on my 06 Ultra and the extra weight factor the 585 seemed to pull just fine. Are you two up on your bike? Who is doing your cam install? Also I have a set of new in the box roller rockers and shafts if you would be interested. Your build, your bike. Let us know as you have our attention.
Last edited by a moderator:
R.Bingham
Active Member
Your cam has a 46 degree intake close.According to the Big Boyz calculator a 95in with 10.25-1 pistons, .030 head gasket and a cam with a 46 degree intake close,assuming stock 85cc heads will have a corrected cranking compression of 197.4. You will not be able to use a cam with an earlier intake close i.e. 34 degree because it will have too much corrected compression. While I have no personal experience with a build like this, I have see where others have had similar builds with good results.
Here is a dyno sheet of an 06 road glide, 95in,10.5-1,wild things tw26 cam(50 degree intake close), Wild Things heads. it dynoed at 113/124, tq/hp with over 100 tq at about 2700 rpm.
I will have to agree with the builder you need to find someone who can do a good tune on what you have.
Here is the link to the Big Boyz calculator
Big Boyz Head Porting - Twin Cam Compression and Displacement Calculator
I hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much,
Randall
Here is a dyno sheet of an 06 road glide, 95in,10.5-1,wild things tw26 cam(50 degree intake close), Wild Things heads. it dynoed at 113/124, tq/hp with over 100 tq at about 2700 rpm.
I will have to agree with the builder you need to find someone who can do a good tune on what you have.
Here is the link to the Big Boyz calculator
Big Boyz Head Porting - Twin Cam Compression and Displacement Calculator
I hope this doesn't muddy the waters too much,
Randall
BUBBIE
Well-Known Member
A way to fix the engine that Has TOO much compression is to use a spacer to Lift the head Higher so the piston doesn't compress too high compression..
I Was going to use spacers(bought for the job) but went a different way, Timing made a difference on my Too High compression issues and the spacers not used..
Spacers under the heads(not the best way but the cheapest) would Lower the compression ratio so a less duration(smaller) earlier intake valve closing could be used.
The heads(valve springs) that were modified to use the larger lift cams would be No problem for using lesser lift cams.
Smitty is right on when he says building a miss-match engine.
Hind sight is to go with A Proven build that FITS your bike and ride style....
Even the engine builders Might go Over Board, so careful is needed and Looking at the PROVEN builds and their dyno charts is a Must, Before a build design is done..
Salvaging a bad Miss-matched build can cost as much as the original build. And Frustration.
signed....BUBBIE
I Was going to use spacers(bought for the job) but went a different way, Timing made a difference on my Too High compression issues and the spacers not used..
Spacers under the heads(not the best way but the cheapest) would Lower the compression ratio so a less duration(smaller) earlier intake valve closing could be used.
The heads(valve springs) that were modified to use the larger lift cams would be No problem for using lesser lift cams.
Smitty is right on when he says building a miss-match engine.
Hind sight is to go with A Proven build that FITS your bike and ride style....
Even the engine builders Might go Over Board, so careful is needed and Looking at the PROVEN builds and their dyno charts is a Must, Before a build design is done..
Salvaging a bad Miss-matched build can cost as much as the original build. And Frustration.
signed....BUBBIE