Running too Lean??

[Jack Klarich]

There is not a map written that would make an engine run at 14.9 @ WOT.
You would really have to go out of your way and force it to do it.

You have all the classic signs of a bad MAP sensor. The ECM will only post codes for a map sensor that is Open or Shorted, Not for a sensor that has non-linear output. If the Map sensor was "stuck" at say 30 kPa, you would not post a map code and the ECM would never see any real engine load and would run lean across the board. Similar to exactly what you have.
It may be worth checking it.

I agree with Hoople, I find it strange the dealer did not find any thing, I would have scanned it and looked at real time fuel trim and watched the map toggle on and off, but then thats just me and the way I would trouble shoot a car with a similar problem, got to love my scanners, Jack

 

[67hat34c]

I have a copy of the Dyno sheet from July, I cant upload but could E mail it to whoever would like to review.

 

[67hat34c]

Copied the post regarding map sensor and sent to dealer, here is response:

Good morning Steve,

I received your email this morning from Jake regarding the MAP sensor, my technician has already tried a new one from inventory and nothing changed with the lean running issue.

I spoke with the factory again regarding the issues with your cycle and the only thing we have arrived at is a tuning issue. OHD's chrome department sold you a download along with the slip-ons and high-flow air cleaner, the problem being, the downloads that Harley sells are for their pipes alone which are more restrictive than the slip-ons which you purchased. Screamin Eagle slip-ons now need to comply with EPA restrictions on noise and are much more restrictive, thus, less air flow.

What we would like to do in order to resolve the issue is credit you for the money spent on the download and put it towards a Super Tuner so we may dyno your bike and get the AFR where it should be for your pipe and air cleaner setup. There will be some additional labor to put the bike on the dyno, but ultimately, your bike will be running the way it should once we have tuned it.

 

[Hoople]

OHD's chrome department sold you a download along with the slip-ons and high-flow air cleaner, the problem being, the downloads that Harley sells are for their pipes alone .

I wonder how they did that. Several months back there was a thread that talked about if the Dealership had a "special" VCI interface that would not marry itself to the ECM, thereby allowing them to download to any bike, any map, as many times as they want.

I thought the dealership did not have a non-restrictive VCI and therefore could not do it, hence the need for each customer to buy their own SEST.
Maybe Chropper would have a positive answer to this question.

 

[67hat34c]

Dont know answer to any of the above.

I talked to shop just now. Verified No engine damage. They claim they pulled heads and everthing looked fine. They no longer believe the white residue is from oil but from fuel. Well that is possible I guess.

They are going to give me a discount on the race tuner and give credit for the download that i did when purchased new 2 yrs ago.

They said that the factory told them the down load was for SE pipes and not the Vance and Hines, claim there is a little difference. Stated the bikes tend to run fine early on but after some miles are put on it such as mine with 15k that they start to have issues.

They claim they will have the air fuel ratio at around 13.5 when done with it. So I will have to pay something but then again I was thinking of Thunder Max anyhow so going with the HD Race Tuner will have to do and even with dyno time will be less expensive.

Well I pick it up after work tomorrow and will get new dyno sheet so I will be very interested in the change in torque, hp and a/f Ratio.

Anyone want to guess on numbers?

 

[Hoople]

Dont know answer to any of the above.

I talked to shop just now. Verified No engine damage. They claim they pulled heads and everthing looked fine. They no longer believe the white residue is from oil but from fuel. ?

That is Great news. Sounds like you have a good plan in place. I agree about the residue being something other than oil.

I did not see your charts but remember Orlando law says they can confiscate your ride for street racing.:s

 

[67hat34c]

Hobbit you are correct, just broke 70 on tq, very little change from the july dyno sheet. After seeing new sheet and comparing with old one I am very confused. Will scan it when I get home and send it .