free website stats program Runs Great Cold;Stutters/Hesitates When Warm | Page 2 | Harley Davidson Forums

Runs Great Cold;Stutters/Hesitates When Warm

Can't be the plugs. They're brand new.

As for taking the TFI out of the circuit, I will have to put the original air box back on, as it does not have a stage-1 download. The TFI is supposed to relieve the lean condition resulting from Hooker slip-ons and Stage-1 airbox. I can do it. It is just not on my list of firsts.

Intake leak is possible, I suppose. The indy that did some work some time back, said they sprayed starter fluid in the vicinity of the intake seals, with no change in idle, so that shows no intake leak. I don't know. Sounds reasonable. They said they tightened the rear exhaust manifold connection, and it did seem to clear up for a while, but it has been cold since Nov.

I have had exhaust-related gaskets and clamps on order from Chicago Harley for 2 months now. Once I get those put in (if I ever get them), I will have eliminated exhaust side leaks (also possible with warmup and vibration). I will then order what I need to eliminate any potential intake leaks. I also intend to order a fuel pressure gauge and adapter, in case the fuel lines in the tank have developed new holes (was the case 2500 miles ago).

Symptoms are not the same as when there were fuel line holes: started hard, tank hissed when idling for a while, seemed to happen regardless of warmup time. This time, she starts right up, and seems to need warm up, shorter time as weather warms up. When the temp is the same, on the way to and from work, it seems that the location where it begins is similar each time (equates to time and/or distance).

If it were fuel pressure or injector wiring issues, warmup would not be a factor, unless the issue is in fuel injector drivers or fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator.

I have a new CPK sensor. I have not put it in, as easy starting and warmup does not lead me to that sensor. I suppose engine temp, MAP or TPS sensors are possible.

So many things can cause this. I just hoped that someone had similar issues, and it was a common problem. Troubleshooting without the proper test equipment and gear is a pain.

I just hope it is not the ECM...

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
I guess you better take it to a shop then. Troubleshooting is a multi part process that needs to be started and finished to figure anything out. Lots of
good suggestions here to start with...................

Bodeen
 
IF you take the ground wire loose on the TFI, It will run the original Lean way it did Before(i know you know this) . THIS Should NOT hurt the engine IF NOT LEFT for a Long time Running Lean.. . IF it runs without the problem after TFI is out of the loop, IT Might be the TFI..

signed....BUBBIE

OOPSeY, I had the same type POST earlier but this one is good to try as the first post from me stated the same thing.
 
Hoople said:
I agree 100%. I would let a PRO figure it out.
Click to expand...
Last time I took it in...for the hole in the inner fuel line...the price was around $700. I can buy alot of tools for that green, if I can find a source for them.

I am a design engineer with 30+ years of experience. I am an accomplished troubleshooter and have a basic understanding of the operation of the open loop FI system. What I don't know, I can learn. I was just hoping that someone could point me in a definitive direction, based on their own experience. Since not, the systematic troubleshooting process is what is necessary.

The symtoms lead me to expect intermittent loss of spark (ECM or some sensor), an intermittent lean condition (intake or exhaust leak due to thermal expansion somewhere, or temperature-sensitive TFI circuitry), or intermittent loss of fuel injector drive (ECM or sensor again).

I have purchased a full exhaust clamp and seal set, in anticipation of completely re-doing the exhaust installation, as a part of checking the condition of my cam chain tensioners. If and when Chicago HD gets my order to me (2 months now, for a few screws and gaskets, never again...switching to Zanotti), I'll do that.

While I'm waiting. I'll pay to have a fuel pressure test done. Fuel line pin holes don't come and go with warm-up, but troubleshooting includes a process of elimination.

Simply taking the TFI out of the circuit is not something I expect to lead to definitive results, in that, with the Stage-1 in place the seriously lean condition will make similar symptoms as what I am already experiencing. If the exhaust work does not change anything, and the fuel pressure test shows good pressure, I'll immediately put the original intake back on, and eliminate the TFI. If that does not change anything, I'll order whatever is necessary to make sure the intake is well sealed. If that changes nothing, its time to start eliminating sensors (one-by-one replacement, unfortunately).

Here is what I expect, if I take it in with a TFI installed: "...can't diagnose it with "that" in there. So I'll have to take it out before I take it in, regardless. Once I take it in, it won't be leaving without a Stage-1 download, so I'll never have to take the stage-1 airbox off ever again, and I can eliminate the TFI anytime I may need to.

One thing I vow...I will NEVER pay $700 to fix what I could have fixed myself for $50, again. If no shortcuts available, it may take some time, but I will not be beaten. In any case, taking it in with an intermittent problem frequently results in a "no problem found" diagnosis, for $100. So, I intend to ride it until I either fix it, or it becomes not so intermittent.

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
As stated before, you got lots of great ideas to start troubleshooting by folks with a ton of experience but you seem to already know all the answers without actually trying any of them. My experience tells me that most of the time, definitive answers are not available when dealing the multiple systems that make a bike run or not. That brings us back to the whole troubleshooting thing. At this point you are either spending the money or riding an ill running bike.

Bodeen
 
RibEye said:
If that changes nothing, its time to start eliminating sensors (one-by-one replacement, unfortunately).
Click to expand...

Why would you choose a diagnostic approach like shot-gunning when the firmware is already in place to help you with that.
 
Bodeen said:
As stated before, you got lots of great ideas to start troubleshooting by folks with a ton of experience but you seem to already know all the answers without actually trying any of them. My experience tells me that most of the time, definitive answers are not available when dealing the multiple systems that make a bike run or not. That brings us back to the whole troubleshooting thing. At this point you are either spending the money or riding an ill running bike.

Bodeen
Click to expand...
I don't understand. What "lots of good ideas here" am I disregarding? All there is here so far is disconnect the TFI, maybe its an intake leak, maybe its injector wire insulation, and take it in to a pro. Thanks to all for those.

I have already stated that the problem is intermittent, and I have a TFI installed. These 2 things will cause problems taking it in to a pro (the dealership). The TFI will be blamed until I pay them to take it out of the loop. I can take it out of the loop myself for alot less than they will charge me to do it. For me to simply take it out of the loop (disconnect its ground wire) with a Stage-1 intake and exhaust, will guarantee a seriously lean condition, which will make the bike run the way it does after it warms up, only all the time. I don't see what I will learn. I will take it out of the loop, but I will put the old airbox back on 1st, so it won't be so lean without the TFI. I will inspect the injector wires at that time. But 1st I will have a fuel pressure test done. If it is fuel pressure, I can do the repair myself. For me, I want to minimize expense and time.

As for taking advantage of firmware in place, how does one do that without the Scanalyzer or other proprietary tools I don't have and that HD won't sell me? I can't even get them to sell me a fuel pressure guage. The bike is not throwing or storing codes. I can buy alot of sensors for $700.

I purchased the exhaust clamps and gaskets back in January, and have yet to receive them. I purchased them because I have found a variety of looseness in the past (due to a broken exhaust support) and the indy that last worked on the bike said he tightened the rear connection the to the jug. Since I need to check my cam tensioners anyway, requiring at least partial exhaust disassembly, might as well make sure for myself that the exhaust is all properly installed and sealed. Who knows? Maybe I will discover a crack at the rear 'Y', which is common on these.

I thought that DIY was championed here. It appears that my attempts to get ideas have offended. For that I am sorry. I meant no disrespect. This thread can be closed.

Rich P
 
Unplug the ECM and clean the pins carefully with a "Q" tip and alcohol and use dielectric grease in the female side plug holes, push it in with a clean "Q" tip and wipe off the surface.

Info from another DIYer.

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT
 
eleft36 said:
Unplug the ECM and clean the pins carefully with a "Q" tip and alcohol and use dielectric grease in the female side plug holes, push it in with a clean "Q" tip and wipe off the surface.

Info from another DIYer.

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT
Click to expand...
Thanks. That I can try right away, and, I'm ashamed it did not occur to me already.

I have no experience with dielectric grease. From what I can tell, it is silicone-based and an insulator. Does it displace readily, to allow electrical contact where it is applied, or will I need to wipe the connection(s) in and out several times to get electrical contact through the grease?

Thanks,
Rich P
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top