CrazieDave
Member
I’ll post something this weekend ,thanks
Transmission and Primary continual problems
- Thread starter Gpetty
- Start date
Anthony C
Member
I'm sorry to hear that. I can give you good advise, you have a really nice ride. I had the same issue, I made all the repairs myself. I bought all the necessary special tools, I replaced every bearing. I also replaced the main shaft and 6th gear because I didn't like the way the bearing surface looked like. What happened to me is, the primary automatic chain adjuster kept taking out slack and put such a strain on the transmission bearings that they had no choice but to fail. After replacing all the bearings I put a manual primary chain adjuster from Baker. You choose what chain adjuster you want, as long as it's not an automatic adjuster. There is several manual chain adjusters out there. After doing that all the problems went away. It's been over 20,000 miles since I did my transmission. I'm not sure you can do it yourself or not. Who ever your taking your ride to is not getting down to the nitty gritty. I can only imagine the expense and disappointment this has CO$T you. Sorry to hear that. That is what I did and never had trouble again.
This is the inner primary case where the clutch pack/ starter ring gear was rubbing the inner case
Attachments
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CrazieDave
Member
the pinion gear has been grinding on the ring gear of clutch basket too which looks like by the pressure plateI’ll post something this weekend ,thanks[/
And started with about .250 left to right play of unit connected on the spline now I’m filing the hub splines to slide it in tighter to where it only has total of .010 total play, better but is the hub or shaft too worn out
Discussion went into trans. continual problems forum
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dolt
Well-Known Member
Have you checked the main shaft movement? Radial run out and/or side to side play with the clutch pack removed? If not, you should do that first; the MDG inner bearings could be going south. If the main shaft is moving, it won't matter how tight you get the clutch hub on the shaft, it will still move. After you have checked that and the main shaft is not moving, install the clutch pack and torque to spec before checking movement. Checking movement with hand tight nut is not an accurate check. Do you have the HD service manual? IIRC, the service limit tolerance for the movement you are checking is in the manual. I know there is a service limit tolerance for the main shaft movement; not sure about clutch pack on the main shaft. I don't have my service manual handy, maybe another member can check? I wanted to attach a video of indicator setup and checking main shaft movement but don't know how to attach and the file might be to big anyway.
CrazieDave
Member
Report back, Thanks Dolt, it’s looking like an arduously daunting task but should I measure on the assembly facing me-out .think that’ll be better on a steel plate bolted across the inner primary cover using some threaded bolts , and do the side play on the main shaft as well , suppose I have to look deeper into it seals you know trans bearing seemed fine, I thank you for the knowledge
dolt
Well-Known Member
Yes, you would have to pull the inner primary to expose the drive pulley and main shaft but before you to that, let's step back a bit.
If there are no fluid leaks, set up a dial indicator and check the main shaft movement. If that checks out say .001"-.003" no reason to remove the inner primary. Reinstall the clutch assembly, torque to spec and check radial run out and side play of the clutch assembly. .010" sound like enough to me to over load the inner primary bearing/race in the long run but as I said in my previous, I don't know what the service limits are. If, after torqued to spec, run out is less than .002" and side play say .003"-.005", run it but keep an eye/ear out for unusual noises and/or fluid leaks. Remember, I am pulling the service tolerance limits out of the air and they should be checked against the service manual.
If there are no fluid leaks, set up a dial indicator and check the main shaft movement. If that checks out say .001"-.003" no reason to remove the inner primary. Reinstall the clutch assembly, torque to spec and check radial run out and side play of the clutch assembly. .010" sound like enough to me to over load the inner primary bearing/race in the long run but as I said in my previous, I don't know what the service limits are. If, after torqued to spec, run out is less than .002" and side play say .003"-.005", run it but keep an eye/ear out for unusual noises and/or fluid leaks. Remember, I am pulling the service tolerance limits out of the air and they should be checked against the service manual.
Anthony C
Member
I do have all the receipts, what I do remember off hand is. When I went to HD for the shaft and 6th gear. The main shaft was super-seated back to a 2006 Dyna, and I was like really? The parts man said there must have been an issue with the 2009 main shafts. If you want I can scoop them up. Question, who was doing the work on your Ultra Classic? Was it HD? There is a video on you tube, Baker himself taking a 5 speed out, and putting a 6 speed in.
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dolt
Well-Known Member
Another suggestion for CraziDave.
Set the clutch basket on a flat surface, like a flat piece of steel/aluminum plate, glass, etc.; something that is FLAT to see if the basket is distorted at all. When re-installing; check "wobble", pull it off, rotate a 1/4 turn and check. Rinse and repeat for 360* and might find a spot where the "wobble" is minimized. Then install and torque to spec at the sweet spot.
The only way to be sure the main shaft is not bent or has side to side play would be to pull the inner primary and put the indicator on the main shaft. However, since there are no fluid leaks and if the IPB and race are in good condition, the main shaft is probably fine.
Set the clutch basket on a flat surface, like a flat piece of steel/aluminum plate, glass, etc.; something that is FLAT to see if the basket is distorted at all. When re-installing; check "wobble", pull it off, rotate a 1/4 turn and check. Rinse and repeat for 360* and might find a spot where the "wobble" is minimized. Then install and torque to spec at the sweet spot.
The only way to be sure the main shaft is not bent or has side to side play would be to pull the inner primary and put the indicator on the main shaft. However, since there are no fluid leaks and if the IPB and race are in good condition, the main shaft is probably fine.
Anthony C
Member
Hello Dolt, I’m Anthony. When checking the side play on the main shaft, is it necessary to put a short pipe on the shaft. Or is it enough to just grab the end of the shaft and check the side play? Thanking you in advance. The main bearing of the transmission that holds the main shaft in place doesn’t look to be a real beefed up bearing for the 2009 model year. Running the transmission with short amount of oil is not good at all. It only holds a little over a quart after disassembled and reassembled. From what I remember and read, there is no leaks. A lot of motorcycle techs like the Red Line gear oil, so if it does leak. It can be identified immediately from the color. From what I’m reading you have lots of experience with these transmissions, I had zero experience with the motorcycle transmissions, but I used my experience with car, pickups, and the big trucks transmissions I’ve worked on for a living. That helped me a bunch. The only part I never had experience with is the shift drum, it turned out to be easier than I had thought. Thank you for your input, I’m sure it is helping everyone reading this thread.
dolt
Well-Known Member
Anthony, not necessary to use extra leverage to check side play on the main shaft; just grab it and try to move it north/south and east/west; the inner primary has to be removed.
Actually, the large bearing you refer to is the bearing the MDG rides in but the main shaft rides on two needle bearings in the MDG. The MDG in both the 5 and 6 speed trannies have two inner needle bearings(inner and outer) but only the later models, '07 and up, have a spacer between the needle bearings. So while the MDG could be fine in the large case bearing, the main shaft could exhibit side play if the MDG needle bearings failed which is not a common occurrence under stock power. However, It was not uncommon for the outer MDG needle bearing to "walk in" on the inner roller which would result in main shaft side play in the early 5 speeds which, IMHO, is why the spacer was added in the 6 speeds. Again, not a common occurrence under stock power but when TQ/HP get into or above the 100/100 range, it could happen.
I have a very short video of me checking main shaft run out and side play when I was experiencing issues with the 5 speed in my '02 FLHT but can't attach it here. The motor is an all bore 107" that made 110HP/124TQ which is probably the reason for the inner needle bearing movement. I had a spacer made, installed new needle bearings; problem solved.
Actually, the large bearing you refer to is the bearing the MDG rides in but the main shaft rides on two needle bearings in the MDG. The MDG in both the 5 and 6 speed trannies have two inner needle bearings(inner and outer) but only the later models, '07 and up, have a spacer between the needle bearings. So while the MDG could be fine in the large case bearing, the main shaft could exhibit side play if the MDG needle bearings failed which is not a common occurrence under stock power. However, It was not uncommon for the outer MDG needle bearing to "walk in" on the inner roller which would result in main shaft side play in the early 5 speeds which, IMHO, is why the spacer was added in the 6 speeds. Again, not a common occurrence under stock power but when TQ/HP get into or above the 100/100 range, it could happen.
I have a very short video of me checking main shaft run out and side play when I was experiencing issues with the 5 speed in my '02 FLHT but can't attach it here. The motor is an all bore 107" that made 110HP/124TQ which is probably the reason for the inner needle bearing movement. I had a spacer made, installed new needle bearings; problem solved.