Type B motors

[eleft36]

My 500cc Honda single has a balancer;my 3 cylinder 595 Trumpy has a balanced motor and of course so does my 96B Deluxe.Who cares about an insignificant power loss at the crank when your quality-of-ride is improved?

I've always thought that rubber mounting a motor(and allowing it to move in a couple of different planes)is bad news for all the bits and pieces that attach to said moving motor and then to a fixed object.Bits fracture,break apart,fall off due to vibration and motor mounts wear out.Norton used the "Isolastic" mounts to try and smooth-out those parallel twin vibes without much success.They had to be torqued 'EXACTLY just so' to work;and then they wouldn't.Harley has troubles with its' rubber mounts,and heaven forbid,so do cars!Rubber wears out;it shrinks,it cracks due to heat and UV exposure.Oil,petrol and degreasers affect it.It breaks.It's fickle.It aint long term.


Not like these lovely balance shafts and weights.They're just 'there' all the time doing their sterling thing.

LONG LIVE THE BALANCED MOTOR I SAY.:worthy

I would say the "B" motors are balanced and counter "balancer" equipped, "A" motors are dynamically balanced, no counter balancer device.

Not sure what caused this crack, it looks like fatigue, it's not mine.

It's from an Ultra, an "A" motor bike.

Al

:USA
:CONNECTICUT

 

[doctordoug]

I have a Deluxe and my husband a Road King. I ride as passenger on his often enough to notice the difference. At stop lights, I do what little kids do in front of a fan. That AAAHHHHH sound with their chest vibrating!

Whether the vibration bothers you or not.... It is a Harley. It looks awesome! It sounds awesome! It IS awesome!

Ride on and be happy with a big smile plastered on your face.

Now, away with the snow please!

What snow! I just got back from a ride with a t shirt on. It is a beautiful day!:small3d026:

 

[R_W_B]

What snow! I just got back from a ride with a t shirt on. It is a beautiful day!:small3d026:

Love that ! Where do you live. Here in Central Florida it's in the 50's today. I had to wear 2 Tee shirts and a vest.

I've heard the the Softtails were less vibration on low speeds but more vibration at higher speeds (as opposed to the Dyna rubber preloaded mounts with shocks). Don't know, never rode one, just heard.

My Street Bob vibrated thru all speeds until I installed a new front motor mount and put washers in to take out the preload. The new mount required 5 washers to fill the gap.
Now it is about the same at idle but as the speed increases my mirrors get better and now at 60 to 70mph my feet don't vibrate off the forward pegs like they used to. I can actually enjoy riding at high speeds now, but not before.

I think the whole preload stretch scenario might have sounded good on paper to H.D. engineers, but it doesn't seem to work that way in reality.

 

[Hoople]

I think the whole preload stretch scenario might have sounded good on paper to H.D. engineers, but it doesn't seem to work that way in reality.

I never heard of the "preload-stretch" concept. What's that all about? Does it apply to my 2009 FXDL?

 

[wilks3]

Stand bike up and use a small floor jack under engine to gently pickup engine. Take out front frame to engine mount bolts. When you have just enough pressure off front mount you can take bolts out. There is now a gap between mount and frame. Fill in this gap with washers or spacer and install bolts back with your fingers, you should be able to do this easily. Tighten bolts back up and remove jack. Now front mount is not pre-loaded or stretched.
wilks3

 

[R_W_B]

I never heard of the "preload-stretch" concept. What's that all about? Does it apply to my 2009 FXDL?

Well that's what I always heard it called. It may go by other nomeclatures. If it's not a softail then it's preloaded.
Anyhow if you ever take the bolts out of your front motor mount (the ones that bolt the mount to the frame and screw inside the rubber block) you will notice the mount pulling away from the frame as you loosen the bolts. This is H.D's patented motor mount system for some models. The engine is actually mounted in rubber tension stretched mounts. Sounds good on paper, stretch the engine between rubber and cure the vibration. But loads of guys (I'm sure some on this forum, and many others on other forums, including me) have released this preload tension by installing longer grade 8 bolts and filling the gap between the mount and the frame with washers. So you no longer have the stretch, only just a rubber mount directly to the frame.
Some guys claim more dramatic results than me. With mine the improvement was all on speeds above 55mph. At an idle it's still about the same. Prior to doing it I had a lot of vibration in the foot pegs and mirrors at high speeds.

It's not real hard to do, but you need to make sure you hold the engine up with a floor jack when you remove the old bolts (place a block of wood between the jack and the engine). That keeps the mount bolt from popping out the last thread as you remove it and the front mount from falling a 1/2 inch down (rotating on the rear mount) till the mount hits the frame. It also is needed to align the mount holes putting back in the new longer bolts and washers. Careful attention must be to getting the right length replacement bolts and threaded shank. The mount will only take about 1-1/8 inch of threads but you don't want any less than a 5/8 inch minimum of thread penetration into the mount. So add up the washer gap (and if you have an Oil Cooler bracket involved etc) and buy the correct length Grade 8 bolts. Also make sure the bare shank area does not meet the mount threads. On mine (with an H.D. Oil Cooler) I had a 5 washer filled gap so I needed 1-3/4 inch lg bolts. They had about 5/8 inch of bare shank. Clean the threads and torque the bolts to manual specs and use blue loctite.

 

[Hoople]

Thanks for all the Great information. I did not know that was the way it worked..

 

[R_W_B]

Thanks for all the Great information. I did not know that was the way it worked..

Well in my case that was the way it did not work. After 13,800 miles I pulled the front mount and looked at it. It was all stretched forward and deformed looking. So before even doing the washer shim I ordered a new mount from Zanottis. When the new mount arrived I laid it on a table beside the old one.
The old one was stretched forward about 3/8 inch at the top and 1/4 inch at the bottom.
I suspect my new mount will last much longer since it won't be stretched out while holding the weight of the engine. The bike rides noticably better, but much more noticable above 55 mph.
There are some legal suits based on this rubber stretched patented method causing rear wheel flexure under certain driving conditions. They submit this since the rear wheel is bolted directly, and tied to the engine and trans. They claim this as being the culprit to both wobble and weave. While it could be a contributing factor, (along with several other items), I think the reason the lawyers jump on it is because it is patented by H.D. and it gives them more legal bite on proving something.
In any case my bike runs better without the stretch.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Well in my case that was the way it did not work. After 13,800 miles I pulled the front mount and looked at it. It was all stretched forward and deformed looking. So before even doing the washer shim I ordered a new mount from Zanottis. When the new mount arrived I laid it on a table beside the old one.
The old one was stretched forward about 3/8 inch at the top and 1/4 inch at the bottom.
I suspect my new mount will last much longer since it won't be stretched out while holding the weight of the engine. The bike rides noticably better, but much more noticable above 55 mph.
There are some legal suits based on this rubber stretched patented method causing rear wheel flexure under certain driving conditions. They submit this since the rear wheel is bolted directly, and tied to the engine and trans. They claim this as being the culprit to both wobble and weave. While it could be a contributing factor, (along with several other items), I think the reason the lawyers jump on it is because it is patented by H.D. and it gives them more legal bite on proving something.
In any case my bike runs better without the stretch.

This combined with oil changing methods what were they thinking ,if not careful the oil will destroy the mount quickly, wonder why Velva hasnt come up with a poly mount yet HMMMM

 

[R_W_B]

This combined with oil changing methods what were they thinking , if not careful the oil will destroy the mount quickly, wonder why Velva hasnt come up with a poly mount yet HMMMM

Yea I've heard the oil is not good on the mount, though I would have thought that it would be made of an oil resistant rubber just like rubber oil lines. Guess it depends on where H.D. had it made, China, Mexico or possibly America.

I can't speak for the previous owner of my bike but when I change the oil I drain the crank first and stand the bike up straight let it drain a few minutes until there is a good length of time between drips. Then with the bike back on the jiffy stand when I remove the filter there is hardly a drop of oil comes out. I can tell since I slip one of those plastic oil filter funnels under the filter. Then with the filter off, I replace the drain plug.