1989 FLTC Not Starting Intermittent Problem
- Thread starter Magister
- Start date
Magister
Member
Warning! This is a VERY long post, and most likely going to be a VERY long thread. Get a drink, grab some food... or just skip it if you'd prefer. ... But, I'd really appreciate the help 
All:
I apologize for the delay in replying. I've been out checking and rechecking the bike. I think I've managed to check the same wires 50 times today. I still am experiencing the same issues - in fact I don't know if this is a good thing or not but the click with no start seems to no longer be intermittent, but an all the time thing. Of course I haven't really ridden the bike, just let it run for a bit to recharge the battery and test the charging system.
I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Keep them coming! If no one minds, I think I'll use this thread as a little log of how it progresses. If I ever get it resolved maybe it will help someone else out in the future. Besides it helps me to put all this down in writing to understand what exactly I found - or at least think I've found.
The Clymer manual did arrive today, and the troubleshooting suggestions it makes for my symptoms were very helpful, if a bit confusing. The wiring guide re-enforced what I knew of the wire paths:
Current goes:
Little black cable from battery -> junction box -> red wire -> follows harness to console -> junction box -> red wire -> ignition switch -> orange wire -> follows harness to starter relay -> green wire -> starter
Added to what I put in the first post here is what I've discovered today:
1. It WILL start EVERY TIME when I jump start from my truck. I must have jump-started the bike 12 times today.
2. It DOES drag a little when starting from the jump-start, but ultimately turns over.
3. My volt gauge built in to the fairing normally shows between 11 and 12 volts, with the jumper-cables attached and the truck running it shows 13-14.
4. After the bike has been started and the jumper cables disconnected the volt gauge in the fairing continues to read 13-14 when I give it a little throttle, 12-13 at idle.
5. The battery has continued to test 10.5 to 12.5 volts depending on how much I've had the bike on for testing.
6. When I connect a jumper cable from the positive on the battery to the starter (giving another path for the current to travel) and press the start button it DOES NOT start. It only clicks (a little louder than normal), but does not turn over.
7. With the battery cables disconnected I checked the continuity of the battery cables with the multimeter. I connected the positive to the end closest to the battery, and the negative to the end at the starter. I set the digital multimeter to 200 (not 200k, just 200) ohms. It read approximately 1.0 - 1.2.
8. The negative cable read the same.
9. I did a voltage loss test (positive contact from the multimeter on the pos. terminal of the battery, negative contact on the multimeter touching where I'm testing) from the positive battery terminal to the end of the battery cable attached to the starter. With the multimeter set at 20 DCV it read less than .03
10. I did a voltage loss test from the positive battery terminal to the junction box where the little black wire comes in from the battery and goes in to the red wire that carries the current to the console and the ignition switch. On both terminals on the junction box it read less than .03.
11. I did a voltage loss test from pos. battery terminal to the orange wire that would normally be plugged in to the starter relay (runs from the ignition switch back to the starter relay. Has no voltage when the switch is in the "off" position). With the ignition switch in the "Ignition" position it read right around .20. Sometimes .21 sometimes .17. With it in the "off" position no voltage was read.
11a. Voltage is between 11.5 and 12.5. When the jumper cables are attached voltage is between 13.5 and 14.5.
12. Voltage loss test from pos. battery terminal to green wire that is normally plugged in to starter. With switch in "ignition", and pressing the "start" button it reads between .17 and .22. No voltage when not pressing the start button triggering the starter relay.
12a. Voltage is from 11.5 to 12.5 depending on how much I've been draining the battery with the start button pressed. When the jumper cables are attached this is between 13.5 and 14.5. Can not be tested when the bike is running.
13. With the battery disconnected, I did a continuity test from the pos. battery wire connector to the orange wire (unplugged from the starter relay) it read 1.0 to 1.4.
14. Can not test continuity to the end of the green wire because I need the battery hooked up to trip the starter relay.
15. While testing the voltage from the terminal on the starter where the battery cable connects to the terminal that goes in to the starter when I press the start button the voltage does drop up to 2 volts.
16. I honestly can not make a lot of sense out of the readings I got from the starter. Following the voltage loss testing instructions gave me all sorts of odd readings.
For example. When I put the negative connector of the multimeter on the negative battery terminal and the positive connector on the end of the green wire while it is connected to the starter (I kind of slipped it in there touching the end of the green wire until I got a reading) it reads 11 - 12 volts even before I press the start button. When I press the start button this drops to 4 volts or so. How can it be reading voltage before I press the button? Why does it drop when I press it?
17. I'm more confused now than when I started at 10am.
Questions I Don't Know the Answers To:
A. Why does the bike start every time on a jump start, but not from the battery? The battery is around 12 volts, the voltage with the jumper cables is between 13 and 14. That doesn't seem like it should make that much of a difference.
B. Would jump-starting the bike "power through" bad battery cables?
C. Does what appears to be acceptable continuity and voltage loss tests tell me the cables are ok?
D. Does the same mean the wiring in the harness (red, orange, and green wires) are ok?
E. Would jump-starting the bike "power through" issues going on in the starter with the solenoid or the starter itself?
F. If the wires in the harness are bad, would jump-starting "power through" those issues?
... If you can't tell the fact that it jump starts every time, but won't start with just the battery is confusing the heck out of me.
Next Steps:
At this point I don't know what else to try. I've disconnected, and reconnected the battery wires so many times I hopefully would have gotten a good connection one of those times. Otherwise, the cables are actually bad, and I don't have spares here to swap them out to see.
The Clymer recommends taking the starter off the bike and performing some bench tests to see if it's actually the starter or the solenoid. Unfortunately, I do not have the facilities to do this properly and would rather not make the situation worse by screwing something up.
Unless one of you have some more suggestions for me to try, or I find something else to test, I think I might have to break down and take it in to the local Harley dealer so they can take this further.
You can bet they're going to get a print out of this and my first post, though. I'll be darned if all this work doesn't at least not get read by the Harley tech there.
.. So much for it being a simple starter relay or a new battery.
Well, those of you more knowledgeable than me? Does any of my "process of elimination" point you more or less to the cause? As usual, thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
All:
I apologize for the delay in replying. I've been out checking and rechecking the bike. I think I've managed to check the same wires 50 times today. I still am experiencing the same issues - in fact I don't know if this is a good thing or not but the click with no start seems to no longer be intermittent, but an all the time thing. Of course I haven't really ridden the bike, just let it run for a bit to recharge the battery and test the charging system.
I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. Keep them coming! If no one minds, I think I'll use this thread as a little log of how it progresses. If I ever get it resolved maybe it will help someone else out in the future. Besides it helps me to put all this down in writing to understand what exactly I found - or at least think I've found.
The Clymer manual did arrive today, and the troubleshooting suggestions it makes for my symptoms were very helpful, if a bit confusing. The wiring guide re-enforced what I knew of the wire paths:
Current goes:
Little black cable from battery -> junction box -> red wire -> follows harness to console -> junction box -> red wire -> ignition switch -> orange wire -> follows harness to starter relay -> green wire -> starter
Added to what I put in the first post here is what I've discovered today:
1. It WILL start EVERY TIME when I jump start from my truck. I must have jump-started the bike 12 times today.
2. It DOES drag a little when starting from the jump-start, but ultimately turns over.
3. My volt gauge built in to the fairing normally shows between 11 and 12 volts, with the jumper-cables attached and the truck running it shows 13-14.
4. After the bike has been started and the jumper cables disconnected the volt gauge in the fairing continues to read 13-14 when I give it a little throttle, 12-13 at idle.
5. The battery has continued to test 10.5 to 12.5 volts depending on how much I've had the bike on for testing.
6. When I connect a jumper cable from the positive on the battery to the starter (giving another path for the current to travel) and press the start button it DOES NOT start. It only clicks (a little louder than normal), but does not turn over.
7. With the battery cables disconnected I checked the continuity of the battery cables with the multimeter. I connected the positive to the end closest to the battery, and the negative to the end at the starter. I set the digital multimeter to 200 (not 200k, just 200) ohms. It read approximately 1.0 - 1.2.
8. The negative cable read the same.
9. I did a voltage loss test (positive contact from the multimeter on the pos. terminal of the battery, negative contact on the multimeter touching where I'm testing) from the positive battery terminal to the end of the battery cable attached to the starter. With the multimeter set at 20 DCV it read less than .03
10. I did a voltage loss test from the positive battery terminal to the junction box where the little black wire comes in from the battery and goes in to the red wire that carries the current to the console and the ignition switch. On both terminals on the junction box it read less than .03.
11. I did a voltage loss test from pos. battery terminal to the orange wire that would normally be plugged in to the starter relay (runs from the ignition switch back to the starter relay. Has no voltage when the switch is in the "off" position). With the ignition switch in the "Ignition" position it read right around .20. Sometimes .21 sometimes .17. With it in the "off" position no voltage was read.
11a. Voltage is between 11.5 and 12.5. When the jumper cables are attached voltage is between 13.5 and 14.5.
12. Voltage loss test from pos. battery terminal to green wire that is normally plugged in to starter. With switch in "ignition", and pressing the "start" button it reads between .17 and .22. No voltage when not pressing the start button triggering the starter relay.
12a. Voltage is from 11.5 to 12.5 depending on how much I've been draining the battery with the start button pressed. When the jumper cables are attached this is between 13.5 and 14.5. Can not be tested when the bike is running.
13. With the battery disconnected, I did a continuity test from the pos. battery wire connector to the orange wire (unplugged from the starter relay) it read 1.0 to 1.4.
14. Can not test continuity to the end of the green wire because I need the battery hooked up to trip the starter relay.
15. While testing the voltage from the terminal on the starter where the battery cable connects to the terminal that goes in to the starter when I press the start button the voltage does drop up to 2 volts.
16. I honestly can not make a lot of sense out of the readings I got from the starter. Following the voltage loss testing instructions gave me all sorts of odd readings.
For example. When I put the negative connector of the multimeter on the negative battery terminal and the positive connector on the end of the green wire while it is connected to the starter (I kind of slipped it in there touching the end of the green wire until I got a reading) it reads 11 - 12 volts even before I press the start button. When I press the start button this drops to 4 volts or so. How can it be reading voltage before I press the button? Why does it drop when I press it?
17. I'm more confused now than when I started at 10am.
Questions I Don't Know the Answers To:
A. Why does the bike start every time on a jump start, but not from the battery? The battery is around 12 volts, the voltage with the jumper cables is between 13 and 14. That doesn't seem like it should make that much of a difference.
B. Would jump-starting the bike "power through" bad battery cables?
C. Does what appears to be acceptable continuity and voltage loss tests tell me the cables are ok?
D. Does the same mean the wiring in the harness (red, orange, and green wires) are ok?
E. Would jump-starting the bike "power through" issues going on in the starter with the solenoid or the starter itself?
F. If the wires in the harness are bad, would jump-starting "power through" those issues?
... If you can't tell the fact that it jump starts every time, but won't start with just the battery is confusing the heck out of me.
Next Steps:
At this point I don't know what else to try. I've disconnected, and reconnected the battery wires so many times I hopefully would have gotten a good connection one of those times. Otherwise, the cables are actually bad, and I don't have spares here to swap them out to see.
The Clymer recommends taking the starter off the bike and performing some bench tests to see if it's actually the starter or the solenoid. Unfortunately, I do not have the facilities to do this properly and would rather not make the situation worse by screwing something up.
Unless one of you have some more suggestions for me to try, or I find something else to test, I think I might have to break down and take it in to the local Harley dealer so they can take this further.
You can bet they're going to get a print out of this and my first post, though. I'll be darned if all this work doesn't at least not get read by the Harley tech there.
.. So much for it being a simple starter relay or a new battery.
Well, those of you more knowledgeable than me? Does any of my "process of elimination" point you more or less to the cause? As usual, thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
Magister
Member
@fin676:
Thanks for that. I'm beginning to lean towards the wiring harness, and the start button being ok. I can't say 100%, I just am not that confident (or good of a mechanic), but I'm starting to be convinced. I did take the start button off the handlebars today and checked the continuity, and all. It tested ok, so I'm reasonably sure that isn't the issue. If you read my storybook post above for what I found out with the wires in the harness, maybe it will help you get a better idea of what it is.
@2000classic:
Tried it first thing this morning, and again right before I quit for the night. No go either time. Makes the "click" in the starter a little louder, but doesn't help the engine turn over. I was actually hoping it would confirm the positive battery cable was bad. Of all that could be wrong it seems the least upsetting.
@TQuentin1:
It's on my Christmas list. I haven't been able to find it anywhere but the dealer, and they want quite a bit for it. The Clymer was very informative today, if confusing. I was able to follow a lot of the troubleshooting steps in it though. Too bad they only convinced me I have no idea what's wrong.
Thanks for that. I'm beginning to lean towards the wiring harness, and the start button being ok. I can't say 100%, I just am not that confident (or good of a mechanic), but I'm starting to be convinced. I did take the start button off the handlebars today and checked the continuity, and all. It tested ok, so I'm reasonably sure that isn't the issue. If you read my storybook post above for what I found out with the wires in the harness, maybe it will help you get a better idea of what it is.
@2000classic:
Tried it first thing this morning, and again right before I quit for the night. No go either time. Makes the "click" in the starter a little louder, but doesn't help the engine turn over. I was actually hoping it would confirm the positive battery cable was bad. Of all that could be wrong it seems the least upsetting.
@TQuentin1:
It's on my Christmas list. I haven't been able to find it anywhere but the dealer, and they want quite a bit for it. The Clymer was very informative today, if confusing. I was able to follow a lot of the troubleshooting steps in it though. Too bad they only convinced me I have no idea what's wrong.
Really sounds like either a bad battery bad cell or two will not allow full 10V or more to be available for ignition system to fire properly. If this problem happens only when engine is hot, or excessive current draw from your starter, only after you jump the battery with the car or truck battery "alone"...check the temperature of the cables and connections, they may be hot! If you the connection or the related cable is bad...nothing should get hot to the touch starting the bike.
Magister
Member
@NewHD74Fan
Thanks for the suggestion.
No, it does not only happen when the engine is hot. It happens when the bike hasn't been run in hours and is completely cold. In fact, just the opposite, sometimes if I jump-start the bike, let it run for a bit, shut it off, then immediately try to restart without the cables it will go. Not all the time, but occasionally.
Because the post was so long you probably didn't catch it, but the battery is brand new. I actually have two batteries I've tried. One that is older (but charged with a battery charger at 2amps until full according to the charger), and a brand new one I bought and charged up when this problem started. I get the same issue with both batteries. I originally figured it was the battery even though the old one was also still showing 11 to 12.7 volts on the multimeter. It was the easiest thing to replace to try to fix the problem. When that didn't correct it, I replaced the starter relay. Obviously that didn't fix it either.
I'm still torn over the battery cables themselves. I wish I had a new set around to swap out with the ones in there to remove that as a possible issue.
However, since shorting the positive battery cable out of the mix by using a set of jumper cables to connect from the positive battery terminal to the post on the starter didn't help I don't know if it would do any good.
Too many "don't knows" for me.
Thanks for the suggestion.
No, it does not only happen when the engine is hot. It happens when the bike hasn't been run in hours and is completely cold. In fact, just the opposite, sometimes if I jump-start the bike, let it run for a bit, shut it off, then immediately try to restart without the cables it will go. Not all the time, but occasionally.
Because the post was so long you probably didn't catch it, but the battery is brand new. I actually have two batteries I've tried. One that is older (but charged with a battery charger at 2amps until full according to the charger), and a brand new one I bought and charged up when this problem started. I get the same issue with both batteries. I originally figured it was the battery even though the old one was also still showing 11 to 12.7 volts on the multimeter. It was the easiest thing to replace to try to fix the problem. When that didn't correct it, I replaced the starter relay. Obviously that didn't fix it either.
I'm still torn over the battery cables themselves. I wish I had a new set around to swap out with the ones in there to remove that as a possible issue.
However, since shorting the positive battery cable out of the mix by using a set of jumper cables to connect from the positive battery terminal to the post on the starter didn't help I don't know if it would do any good.
Too many "don't knows" for me.
Magister
Member
Here's an addition to the possible "symptoms" list. Because several of you have mentioned the, "hold the start button, and feel for where it's getting hot" idea I just went out the garage and figured it's so simple it just might work
For the record I stopped working on the bike earlier around 5 pm EST on Wed. or so, its now 12:30am EST on Thurs, so the bike has been sitting in the garage since then. It was certainly cold.
I turned the ignition switch to "Ignition", and had a helper hold the start button down while I felt all the connections for signs of heat. What I found was:
A. Both the battery terminals remained cool to the touch.
B. The post on the starter where the battery cable connects remained cool to the touch.
C. The post on the starter where the cable that runs in to the starter is remained cool to the touch.
D. The green wire running from the starter relay to the starter got VERY hot. Like make the electrical tape on it sticky and burn my finger hot.
E. The other wires connected to the starter relay began to heat up (and the starter relay began to warm up). If this is because of their own issues, or because of being connected with or near the green wire I don't know.
F. The junction box where the thin black wire that runs from the terminal on the starter where the battery cable is and the red wire that runs to the console and ultimately the ignition also got warm. This could simply be because of the current, maybe?
Now the green wire, thin black wire, and the others connected to the starter relay (orange, two black, and a brown), as well as the red wire running to the console) all are 14 gauge I think? Not very thick so I would expect them to heat up a little from prolonged current like holding the start button in, right? Maybe not as hot as green got though.
I wonder if the green cable is actually bad? Would jump-starting the bike be enough to get it to turn over even if that wire is bad?
... The Laws of Thermodynamics need to be more descriptive Thoughts anyone?
For the record I stopped working on the bike earlier around 5 pm EST on Wed. or so, its now 12:30am EST on Thurs, so the bike has been sitting in the garage since then. It was certainly cold.
I turned the ignition switch to "Ignition", and had a helper hold the start button down while I felt all the connections for signs of heat. What I found was:
A. Both the battery terminals remained cool to the touch.
B. The post on the starter where the battery cable connects remained cool to the touch.
C. The post on the starter where the cable that runs in to the starter is remained cool to the touch.
D. The green wire running from the starter relay to the starter got VERY hot. Like make the electrical tape on it sticky and burn my finger hot.
E. The other wires connected to the starter relay began to heat up (and the starter relay began to warm up). If this is because of their own issues, or because of being connected with or near the green wire I don't know.
F. The junction box where the thin black wire that runs from the terminal on the starter where the battery cable is and the red wire that runs to the console and ultimately the ignition also got warm. This could simply be because of the current, maybe?
Now the green wire, thin black wire, and the others connected to the starter relay (orange, two black, and a brown), as well as the red wire running to the console) all are 14 gauge I think? Not very thick so I would expect them to heat up a little from prolonged current like holding the start button in, right? Maybe not as hot as green got though.
I wonder if the green cable is actually bad? Would jump-starting the bike be enough to get it to turn over even if that wire is bad?
... The Laws of Thermodynamics need to be more descriptive
Thoughts anyone?Magister,
Couple of things you probably are aware of, but just incase:
When jumping your bike's battery with your truck's, make sure the truck is NOT :no running (otherwise, it could damage some of the electrical components on your bike :swoon ).
More information can be found at Jump Starting a Dead Battery - Harley Davidson Community
Also, to charge the battery, you need be at greater than 1000 RPMs. That said, your charging systems is stressed when it's used to do this - a low amperage, slow battery charger is a better way to go. :bigsmiley12:
Check out: Battery Tender - Harley Davidson Community
I know, first I suggested the Remote Starter Button, then TQ recommended the HD Factory Service Manual and now, I'm adding a Battery Tender to the list (I have the Battery Tender Junior). Good at helping you spend your $ aren't we?!?
I'm leaning toward the battery as the problem. :33: If NEWHD74FAN's recommondations don't pan out, charge the battery fully and then take it to an Auto parts store (Autozone, etc) for a load test, that will diagnose a bad cell or two.
This probably is not very helpful for your current situation, :dknow but since we are dealing with VERY similar bikes...
Recently, my bike was taking longer to start, meaning, I had to sit on the starter button (either original or Remote) for a considerable time. It was an intermittent problem at first but then became more regular. THEN, during sporatic starts, the starter would remain engaged despite the bike being at idle.anic I checked all the connections and cleaned the starter -- the battery was new when I bought her just months before. The problem continued despite my "fixes". I poured over the manual :read -- lots of good info, including how to clean the starter and electrical testing of it. Anyway, in an exploded view of the starter/solenoid, there was a part NOT present when I cleaned it -- a small steel ball (it extends the reach of the plunger). After replacing the long ago lost (i.e. before I owned it :12: ) steel ball and replacing both battery cables -- she starts right away, EVERY time!!! :yahoo I suspect, the magnetic fields are wearing out hence the problem getting progressively worse but for now, she starts top notch!! :bigsmiley11:
I really hope you find the answer here and not have to resort to a dealorship!! I know (believe me, I really do know) how frustrating diagnosing a problem is -- you'll get it!! Just think of all the info you are learning about your bike. Not to mention, all the testing you are doing will serve as a baseline and if anything else goes arye, a different reading on a previous performed test will at minimum narrow down the possible causes.
I did my best to write a long post - just so you don't feel alone!! :newsmile01:
CatWoman
Couple of things you probably are aware of, but just incase:
When jumping your bike's battery with your truck's, make sure the truck is NOT :no running (otherwise, it could damage some of the electrical components on your bike :swoon ).
More information can be found at Jump Starting a Dead Battery - Harley Davidson Community
Also, to charge the battery, you need be at greater than 1000 RPMs. That said, your charging systems is stressed when it's used to do this - a low amperage, slow battery charger is a better way to go. :bigsmiley12:
Check out: Battery Tender - Harley Davidson Community
I know, first I suggested the Remote Starter Button, then TQ recommended the HD Factory Service Manual and now, I'm adding a Battery Tender to the list (I have the Battery Tender Junior). Good at helping you spend your $ aren't we?!?
I'm leaning toward the battery as the problem. :33: If NEWHD74FAN's recommondations don't pan out, charge the battery fully and then take it to an Auto parts store (Autozone, etc) for a load test, that will diagnose a bad cell or two.
This probably is not very helpful for your current situation, :dknow but since we are dealing with VERY similar bikes...
Recently, my bike was taking longer to start, meaning, I had to sit on the starter button (either original or Remote) for a considerable time. It was an intermittent problem at first but then became more regular. THEN, during sporatic starts, the starter would remain engaged despite the bike being at idle.
anic I checked all the connections and cleaned the starter -- the battery was new when I bought her just months before. The problem continued despite my "fixes". I poured over the manual :read -- lots of good info, including how to clean the starter and electrical testing of it. Anyway, in an exploded view of the starter/solenoid, there was a part NOT present when I cleaned it -- a small steel ball (it extends the reach of the plunger). After replacing the long ago lost (i.e. before I owned it :12: ) steel ball and replacing both battery cables -- she starts right away, EVERY time!!! :yahoo I suspect, the magnetic fields are wearing out hence the problem getting progressively worse but for now, she starts top notch!! :bigsmiley11: I really hope you find the answer here and not have to resort to a dealorship!! I know (believe me, I really do know) how frustrating diagnosing a problem is -- you'll get it!! Just think of all the info you are learning about your bike. Not to mention, all the testing you are doing will serve as a baseline and if anything else goes arye, a different reading on a previous performed test will at minimum narrow down the possible causes.
I did my best to write a long post - just so you don't feel alone!! :newsmile01:
CatWoman
Magister
Member
@Catwoman
Thanks. I know I can be long-winded at times (like now!). In this case it's simply to try and make sure all the information I collect is out there. Goodness only knows I'm not having a lot of luck, so hopefully someone else out there will have the bright idea that fixes it.
Thanks for the tips on the jump-starting and the battery tender.
I have a nice little Black and Decker battery charger I use. It has a 2amp setting just for powersport batteries. Seems to work great, if a little slow.
As for the 1000 RPM, I do hold the throttle a little open when I'm letting it run to make sure there is a voltage increase to the battery.
I typically ride everyday so a battery tender is not really needed. In fact thanks to this recent issue I've had to blow the dust off my truck keys. Not something I was really happy to do.
This problem is definitely not from the bike sitting. Here's the story.
Last weekend (Sunday) I went to the garage started it up (first try) and rode about 10 miles to a nearby restaurant to meet up with some friends before going to a Toys for Tots ride. We went inside and spent about an hour eating breakfast. I came out, everyone started up to ride to the meeting place, but me. I got the "click" no start. In this instance I shut the bike off, went inside got a cold drink and tried to cool off. When I came back out about 20 minutes later, the bike started up. Took a few presses of the start button, but it went.
Rode it home, and immediately got a new battery. Charged and installed the new battery. Bike started right up. Yay I fixed it - wrong. The next day, I rode the bike to do some errands. Stopped at a few stores, and the bike started up first time at each. Feeling pretty good now. Stopped to eat again, in there about and hour, came out to ride home and "click" no start. This time it wouldn't eventually start. Had to ride a friends bike home get the truck drive back jump the bike then drive it home.
This time I bought the relay on a recommendation from an acquaintance who is the service manager at one of the local Harley dealers and some of the "guides" I've read online.
Installed the new relay. Bike started up first try. Went for a little ride, came home, did a few things in the house, came out to take it to the store and "click" no start.
That is how the saga began. Since then it has only turned over once or twice without needing to be jump-started. Otherwise it's the "click" scenario.
Because of all that I'm not convinced it's the battery itself. It is brand new, I just bought it as an attempt to fix the starting issue. I've tried swapping the newly charged old battery with the new one a few times and the problem still persists.
Two bad batteries, one being brand new, is just a bit hard to swallow. Now, bad battery cables, that might actually end up being the problem.
I'll keep your story in mind should I ever start to have that problem.
In reading over other posts (on another site) I realized there is a simple test I did not do. I can try "shorting" the two posts on the solenoid and seeing if the starter turns over. That is the post with the wire from the battery connected to the post with the starter wire. Big screw driver (I'll probably use the jumper cables) and some sparks I guess are on the menu for the morning.
Since it starts on a jump I actually think it will start. Don't ask me why I say that but I have a gut feeling. If it doesn't, well that's good in a way at least it points me to either the battery wires again or the starter itself.
I'd love to figure this out on my own, but I'd love even more to have the bike back in riding condition. I'm going to draw the line at disassembling the starter, and maybe even buying new battery wires without a good reason (a definite test) to do so. There the dealer can swap whatever parts they need to make it work without me having to buy expensive parts that I might not even need.
Will update after I perform that test in the morning. Since it would be fairly easy to do and inexpensive I might also try making a new wire to run in place of the green one that got so hot. It goes from the starter relay to the solenoid and is activated when the start button is pressed. Pretty easy to get to, and is really only a wire with slip type connectors on each end. The green one actually looks a little old and may possibly not be working right irregardless of what the earlier tests seem to say.
Please Santa, a working bike for Christmas?
Errr.. it wouldn't let me edit the above post to add this bit to the story of how the issue started. Something about no editing your posts after five minutes.
Anyways.. so before the issue on Sunday there was Saturday.
Last Saturday I woke up early rode the bike to a meeting at the local college. I spent pretty much the whole day there. Came back to the parking garage, bike fired up first time and I rode it home. A few hours later I went out to take the bike to the store, and "click" no start. Truth be told, I didn't think much of it, I just disconnected the battery brought it in and set it to charge on the charger. When it was done (quite some time later) I re-installed it in the bike.
Thanks. I know I can be long-winded at times (like now!). In this case it's simply to try and make sure all the information I collect is out there. Goodness only knows I'm not having a lot of luck, so hopefully someone else out there will have the bright idea that fixes it.
Thanks for the tips on the jump-starting and the battery tender.
I have a nice little Black and Decker battery charger I use. It has a 2amp setting just for powersport batteries. Seems to work great, if a little slow.
As for the 1000 RPM, I do hold the throttle a little open when I'm letting it run to make sure there is a voltage increase to the battery.
I typically ride everyday so a battery tender is not really needed. In fact thanks to this recent issue I've had to blow the dust off my truck keys. Not something I was really happy to do.
This problem is definitely not from the bike sitting. Here's the story.
Last weekend (Sunday) I went to the garage started it up (first try) and rode about 10 miles to a nearby restaurant to meet up with some friends before going to a Toys for Tots ride. We went inside and spent about an hour eating breakfast. I came out, everyone started up to ride to the meeting place, but me. I got the "click" no start. In this instance I shut the bike off, went inside got a cold drink and tried to cool off. When I came back out about 20 minutes later, the bike started up. Took a few presses of the start button, but it went.
Rode it home, and immediately got a new battery. Charged and installed the new battery. Bike started right up. Yay I fixed it - wrong. The next day, I rode the bike to do some errands. Stopped at a few stores, and the bike started up first time at each. Feeling pretty good now. Stopped to eat again, in there about and hour, came out to ride home and "click" no start. This time it wouldn't eventually start. Had to ride a friends bike home get the truck drive back jump the bike then drive it home.
This time I bought the relay on a recommendation from an acquaintance who is the service manager at one of the local Harley dealers and some of the "guides" I've read online.
Installed the new relay. Bike started up first try. Went for a little ride, came home, did a few things in the house, came out to take it to the store and "click" no start.
That is how the saga began. Since then it has only turned over once or twice without needing to be jump-started. Otherwise it's the "click" scenario.
Because of all that I'm not convinced it's the battery itself. It is brand new, I just bought it as an attempt to fix the starting issue. I've tried swapping the newly charged old battery with the new one a few times and the problem still persists.
Two bad batteries, one being brand new, is just a bit hard to swallow. Now, bad battery cables, that might actually end up being the problem.
I'll keep your story in mind should I ever start to have that problem.
In reading over other posts (on another site) I realized there is a simple test I did not do. I can try "shorting" the two posts on the solenoid and seeing if the starter turns over. That is the post with the wire from the battery connected to the post with the starter wire. Big screw driver (I'll probably use the jumper cables) and some sparks I guess are on the menu for the morning.
Since it starts on a jump I actually think it will start. Don't ask me why I say that but I have a gut feeling. If it doesn't, well that's good in a way at least it points me to either the battery wires again or the starter itself.
I'd love to figure this out on my own, but I'd love even more to have the bike back in riding condition. I'm going to draw the line at disassembling the starter, and maybe even buying new battery wires without a good reason (a definite test) to do so. There the dealer can swap whatever parts they need to make it work without me having to buy expensive parts that I might not even need.
Will update after I perform that test in the morning. Since it would be fairly easy to do and inexpensive I might also try making a new wire to run in place of the green one that got so hot. It goes from the starter relay to the solenoid and is activated when the start button is pressed. Pretty easy to get to, and is really only a wire with slip type connectors on each end. The green one actually looks a little old and may possibly not be working right irregardless of what the earlier tests seem to say.
Please Santa, a working bike for Christmas?
Errr.. it wouldn't let me edit the above post to add this bit to the story of how the issue started. Something about no editing your posts after five minutes.
Anyways.. so before the issue on Sunday there was Saturday.
Last Saturday I woke up early rode the bike to a meeting at the local college. I spent pretty much the whole day there. Came back to the parking garage, bike fired up first time and I rode it home. A few hours later I went out to take the bike to the store, and "click" no start. Truth be told, I didn't think much of it, I just disconnected the battery brought it in and set it to charge on the charger. When it was done (quite some time later) I re-installed it in the bike.
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Okay, I'm with you, I doubt it's the battery - but the load test are usually free, it couldn't hurt!
I think replacing the green, worn-out wire could never be wrong - I like to soldering the ends on and shrink wrapping them. It is also a good investment to have extra items (i.e spark plugs, headlamp bulbs) around. It might not hurt to have a reserve set of battery cables. I was going to order from Yooper cables when I got mine, but the owner was out of town when I needed them.
Yooper Cables - Harley Davidson Community
Instead, I went to a Independent Stereo Installer and had mine made. They also recommended a new, shorter route for the negative -- always a good move. If you opt for this source of cables, make sure they use cable that is copper thoughout - some of the stereo cable looks similar but there is a small nylon cord through the center of the copper. Check out the above website for other recommondations. (I know -- there is always more to read about. That's what makes this site so GREAT).
Let me know how things go -- just for kicks check out this thread: EZ Pull Clutch is in but.....-- you aren't the only one that is currently discouraged!! I've been using my truck WAAAAAAY to much!!! AND, my bike wasn't even sick!!
CatWoman
I think replacing the green, worn-out wire could never be wrong - I like to soldering the ends on and shrink wrapping them. It is also a good investment to have extra items (i.e spark plugs, headlamp bulbs) around. It might not hurt to have a reserve set of battery cables. I was going to order from Yooper cables when I got mine, but the owner was out of town when I needed them.
Yooper Cables - Harley Davidson Community
Instead, I went to a Independent Stereo Installer and had mine made. They also recommended a new, shorter route for the negative -- always a good move. If you opt for this source of cables, make sure they use cable that is copper thoughout - some of the stereo cable looks similar but there is a small nylon cord through the center of the copper. Check out the above website for other recommondations. (I know -- there is always more to read about. That's what makes this site so GREAT).
Let me know how things go -- just for kicks check out this thread: EZ Pull Clutch is in but.....-- you aren't the only one that is currently discouraged!! I've been using my truck WAAAAAAY to much!!! AND, my bike wasn't even sick!!
CatWoman
Based on some of the info I have read in this thread, I do not get the impression that you are having a discharged battery problem. It seems to be either a circuitry problem, or a problem with the starter itself. Quite frankly, the more you describe the problem, the more it reminds me of the problem I had with my '91 Dyna that I mentioned before. I would do the switches anyway, just because it is easy to do, and it eliminates that as a potential intermittent issue.
TQ
TQ