96 0r 103 W Hi-output cams

[dolt]

Thank you for the replies. I have done cam work on my earlier bikes, but not divulged in the bore area yet. I had liked the way the '15 had its powerband and wanted to reproduce it if it was feasible.

An aftermarket cam, like the Andrews 48, will always produce a better power band than an SE cam that must have a profile that allows emissions to meet EPA standards. There is a general consensus among many builders that the 48is the best cam only upgrade for the TC96; so that is not JMHO.

Whether you install the Rushmore cam, the 255 or an aftermarket cam, you should have the Stage I upgrade completed and the tune is everything. You can spend a bunch of money on Stage IV kits, etc., but if the tune is no good, it's all for naught.:hii

 

[propflux01]

It is my understanding that the 48 is basically just a '21 on stilts". I installed a 21 on the '06 Ultra I used to have, it was an OK cam, but lots of intake noise. the stage one has already been done to this bike, free exhuast and big sucker-type intake. plus what tune they installed on the orange box.

 

[dolt]

It is my understanding that the 48 is basically just a '21 on stilts". I installed a 21 on the '06 Ultra I used to have, it was an OK cam, but lots of intake noise. the stage one has already been done to this bike, free exhuast and big sucker-type intake. plus what tune they installed on the orange box.

Well, you are mistaken. The 48 was introduced in 2010 and has a completely different profile than the 21; take a look. As cams go, the Andrews family of cams does not have the reputation as being noisy. With cam overlap, sometimes the intake noise is unavoidable.

There was no "tune" installed in the orange box; it was flashed with a map or simply the MoCo Stage I flash which does nothing but add a bit of fuel. It used to raise the rev limit but don't believe it does that any more. Unless the bike has been on a dyno, it has not been tuned.

You need to do more homework.:hii

 

[propflux01]

That's why I am here asking.. The bike will rev to 6K, I've never tried to take it farther by any means.

 

[Jeff Klarich]

If you can locate the former owner or who worked on the bike prior to you owning it that might help you find out if it was dynoed or a back yard mechanic and his trusty computer tuned the tuner. I would think if someone paid several hundred bucks for the SE tuner he would of tried to get the most out of it. Most people won't install a tuner just for bragging rights, they have a specific reason so as to complement the mods. done to the engine.

 

[dolt]

If you can locate the former owner or who worked on the bike prior to you owning it that might help you find out if it was dynoed or a back yard mechanic and his trusty computer tuned the tuner. I would think if someone paid several hundred bucks for the SE tuner he would of tried to get the most out of it. Most people won't install a tuner just for bragging rights, they have a specific reason so as to complement the mods. done to the engine.

Jeff, I don't disagree that many owners will not install a tuner without trying to get the most out of it. However, many dealers do push the SERT and now the SEPST as well as the Stage I flash; sounds trick to the uninitiated and they think by spending the extra $$, they will get the most out of the upgrade.

I wish I had $1.00 for every unsuspecting newbie (not saying that the OP is such) that a dealer has convinced to pony up the $400 or whatever the SEPST is going for these days plus another $150 for the Stage I flash and then the newbie comes back wondering why there is so much decel popping, hard starting, or other driveability issues and the dealer spends some more of the newbies money. Eventually, the newbie finds out that a dyno tune will sort out his issues and once that is done, the newbie cannot believe the difference.:s

If the OP can rev to 6000 and he does indeed have the SERT or the SEPST; the ECM has been flashed, either with the Stage I flash or a map. That's another dealer play, sell the tuner, install a map, put the bike on the dyno, spend all of 30 minutes tweaking the map and calling that a dyno tune. As you may know, a good dyno tune will put 40-50 miles on the odometer and will take 3-4 hours.

If the OPs bike had been dyno tuned, there would likely have been a dyno sheet and, as you suggest, perhaps talking to the previous owner will shed some light.

The OP appears to be trying to learn but I do detect a little reluctance to listen; I am just trying to help him achieve his goal but still not sure what that goal is.:hii

 

[Jeff Klarich]

propflux01, Are you sure your scoot does not have more work done to it then you really know? With the minor upgrades you stated there would be no need for someone to add the SE tuner other then to add more fuel which could have been done much cheaper. Tuners are usually add to the mix after some pretty significant mods. are done.

 

[Jeff Klarich]

Jeff, I don't disagree that many owners will not install a tuner without trying to get the most out of it. However, many dealers do push the SERT and now the SEPST as well as the Stage I flash; sounds trick to the uninitiated and they think by spending the extra $$, they will get the most out of the upgrade.

I wish I had $1.00 for every unsuspecting newbie (not saying that the OP is such) that a dealer has convinced to pony up the $400 or whatever the SEPST is going for these days plus another $150 for the Stage I flash and then the newbie comes back wondering why there is so much decel popping, hard starting, or other driveability issues and the dealer spends some more of the newbies money. Eventually, the newbie finds out that a dyno tune will sort out his issues and once that is done, the newbie cannot believe the difference.:s

If the OP can rev to 6000 and he does indeed have the SERT or the SEPST; the ECM has been flashed, either with the Stage I flash or a map. That's another dealer play, sell the tuner, install a map, put the bike on the dyno, spend all of 30 minutes tweaking the map and calling that a dyno tune. As you may know, a good dyno tune will put 40-50 miles on the odometer and will take 3-4 hours.

If the OPs bike had been dyno tuned, there would likely have been a dyno sheet and, as you suggest, perhaps talking to the previous owner will shed some light.

The OP appears to be trying to learn but I do detect a little reluctance to listen; I am just trying to help him achieve his goal but still not sure what that goal is.:hii

Couldn't agree more, I'm just curious if the OP has any background on the scoot. That would shed more light on what's been done and what hasn't.

 

[propflux01]

I do not understand what the 'reluctance to listen' is referring to, other than advice of a full dyno, which I cannot accomplish at the immediate time, and indicated would occur at a later date (there are no dyno tuners that I know of other than the HD dealer around here). all I had asked was the feasibility of installing the rushmore cam and increasing to 103, if it was worth it, or just staying 96 with the cam, and using the orange box to install a map that would allow me to run the bike without burning it up until I could get it to a tuner/dyno. I just liked the way the '15 rode, and wanted to duplicate it as close as possible with what I have.

The gent I purchased the bike from claimed nothing was done to it except a 'stage one', consisting of a big sucker clone, aftermarket pipes, and the orange tuner box I was given. He informed me that he took the bike to dealer for all maintenance performed on it. I have since been unable to contact him concerning this bike. It currently has 7000 miles on it.

AS it stands the bike runs ok with no decel pop (very slight gurgle), and no "lean surge" at cruising speed. just wanted alittle more from the 96, that I experienced from the '15.

 

[dbmg]

I was once told that to properly ride a Harley you need to be up on the cam.:s I think the point that is being made is and the question being asked can have multiple answers. I think it is understood that all you want to do is install a upgraded cam, which that in itself will need a fuel management change. The factory down load that will re-flash the tuner you have will only reset to a EPA approved flash which for a $150.00 is not worth it nor going to get you where you need to be. That is why the dyno is being discussed. The dyno itself is another whole can of worms for it is hard to find someone who is not only a expert, but who can also tune you bike to get all the performance out of it. So though your question about cam is a very simple question that could easily have a yes or know answer, I believe that replies to your thread is trying to explain the best scenario for you and trying to help understand that it is a very complex question. So it appears that the unanimous answer is that it is not feasible to just install cam and go with it. Not saying that you could not just replace cam it is just the results would be quite unsatisfying. So the long and short of it may be, ride bike as it is, wind up RPM a bit more near red line before shifting up, and remember when need be, downshifting can be equivalent to adding 10 HP to bike...
And wait till you are able to do a complete Stage 2 along with dyno.......
Just my 2 cents.......:hii