Cam Exchange, Bolt in??

[danthern]

I understand your desire to change the cams to eliminate that as a potential source of the noise. After all you have done chasing the noise; I get it but will bet a six pack, the cams are not the source of the noise.

Does the noise change at all in neutral? Does the noise change with the tranny in gear but clutch disengaged? Have you tried a stethoscope searching for the noise?

As for the specifics of a quick in/out cam change; its pretty simple with adjustable pushrods. Collapse the tubes, remove the pushrods, get a pair of those magnet lifter holder so you don't have to remove the lifter blocks, remove the cam cover (catch the oil that will run out), remove the cam plate (with or without the oil pump-your call), swap cams, re-install with timing marks aligned, install the cam plate/oil pump, align the oil pump and reverse the process. Best to have the service manual handy and there are no special tools required.:coffee

Thanks for your reply...I agree that the cams are probably not the culprit but just the same I want to change em to be certain. As to your questions about my nemesis noise, it is audible on idle in neutral, clutch engaged on not. It's there in gear, clutch in or out. Going down the road, it's pronounced when the load is increased. When I let off the throttle, it decreases dramatically. I suspect it's still there but with wind noise and all I don't hear it until I increase the throttle. It's RPM synchronized. I do have a stethoscope, And I can't pinpoint it. Again, at least 2 master mechanics at 2 different Harley shops in my area have worked on it. They don't know either. It's a real puzzler. I'll post the results after the cam swap. I appreciate the feedback

 

[stray dog]

One more thing, you probably know already, take adjustable PR's out the same as putting them in - one cyl at a time at TDC on compression stroke.

As far as the chirp, I think of a chirp as something rubbing & a tick as something hitting.

I would inspect the upper ends of the PR's for shiny rub markings (and tubes and the hole(s) in the head).

While the cam plate is off check the runout of the pinion shaft....I hope it's respectable (because you don't want to know what I'm thinking about ).

 

[danthern]

One more thing, you probably know already, take adjustable PR's out the same as putting them in - one cyl at a time at TDC on compression stroke.

As far as the chirp, I think of a chirp as something rubbing & a tick as something hitting.

I would inspect the upper ends of the PR's for shiny rub markings (and tubes and the hole(s) in the head).

While the cam plate is off check the runout of the pinion shaft....I hope it's respectable (because you don't want to know what I'm thinking about ).

Thanks...the mechanic at the dealer checked the runout when he changed the oil pump out (thinking that was the problem) and said it was within limits....I'll take a good look at those pushrods. Thanks again

 

[dolt]

Thanks for your reply...I agree that the cams are probably not the culprit but just the same I want to change em to be certain. As to your questions about my nemesis noise, it is audible on idle in neutral, clutch engaged on not. It's there in gear, clutch in or out. Going down the road, it's pronounced when the load is increased. When I let off the throttle, it decreases dramatically. I suspect it's still there but with wind noise and all I don't hear it until I increase the throttle. It's RPM synchronized. I do have a stethoscope, And I can't pinpoint it. Again, at least 2 master mechanics at 2 different Harley shops in my area have worked on it. They don't know either. It's a real puzzler. I'll post the results after the cam swap. I appreciate the feedback

Of course, the noise could be anything but the fact the noise traces the motor rpms, increases under load and decreases under low or no load points to a few things, for me anyway. A tiny exhaust leak or something in the clutch, inner primary bearing or race even though I would expect the noise to change with the engagement/disengagement of the clutch.

I know you are going to say you have checked but check again the exhaust connections at the cylinder heads and muffler to head pipe and in particular the connection at the cross over pipe that runs under the frame to the left side. The cross over connection is sealed with a mesh gasket that should be replaced when the exhaust system is removed and, if not installed properly will leak. Check the cross over hangar as well.

I would also be looking for areas where there could be metal to metal contact generated between the moving motor and connected parts and the fixed parts of the motorcycle.

Of course, I am grasping at straws not being able to hear the noise but I know how annoying such a situation is an just throwing things out for your consideration.:coffee

 

[motor]

Few years ago I had a chirping sound on a cylinder base gasket .I know your motor is newer and uses O-rings ..which I assume were replaced with new ..Just relating a chirp I once had and fixed...a chirp can be an air leak

 

[dolt]

Another possible source is the transmission main shaft bearing going south. The later models uses a cheap bearing with a plastic cage to hold the balls in the bearing. Not an uncommon failure and a pain to check but if it goes south, bad and major juju follows.

 

[danthern]

Of course, the noise could be anything but the fact the noise traces the motor rpms, increases under load and decreases under low or no load points to a few things, for me anyway. A tiny exhaust leak or something in the clutch, inner primary bearing or race even though I would expect the noise to change with the engagement/disengagement of the clutch.

I know you are going to say you have checked but check again the exhaust connections at the cylinder heads and muffler to head pipe and in particular the connection at the cross over pipe that runs under the frame to the left side. The cross over connection is sealed with a mesh gasket that should be replaced when the exhaust system is removed and, if not installed properly will leak. Check the cross over hangar as well.

I would also be looking for areas where there could be metal to metal contact generated between the moving motor and connected parts and the fixed parts of the motorcycle.

Of course, I am grasping at straws not being able to hear the noise but I know how annoying such a situation is an just throwing things out for your consideration.:coffee

I appreciate it....I don't think it's an exhaust leak because with a stethoscope I can tell that its inside the engine somewhere. Sounds like the front cylinder but I can't be sure, what with echo and sound travel....I forgot to mention that the clutch is new. They went through the tranny and replaced some bearings, sounds like it was that one that you mentioned. I'll check the exhaust again. Wouldn't I hear an exhaust leak with the stethoscope?

Few years ago I had a chirping sound on a cylinder base gasket .I know your motor is newer and uses O-rings ..which I assume were replaced with new ..Just relating a chirp I once had and fixed...a chirp can be an air leak

I did replace those O-rings when I had the cylinders honed and replaced the pistons...I should mention that the bike has no performance issues at all. Runs great. I rode about 300 miles today...

 

[dickey]

I would go with the 254e cams instead--same low end torque, more passing & top end, easier on your starter motor, & less heat & hot start kickback.

 

[Mongo1958]

Thanks for your reply...I agree that the cams are probably not the culprit but just the same I want to change em to be certain. As to your questions about my nemesis noise, it is audible on idle in neutral, clutch engaged on not. It's there in gear, clutch in or out. Going down the road, it's pronounced when the load is increased. When I let off the throttle, it decreases dramatically. I suspect it's still there but with wind noise and all I don't hear it until I increase the throttle. It's RPM synchronized. I do have a stethoscope, And I can't pinpoint it. Again, at least 2 master mechanics at 2 different Harley shops in my area have worked on it. They don't know either. It's a real puzzler. I'll post the results after the cam swap. I appreciate the feedback

Could it be engine mounts? :newsmile07:

 

[danthern]

Could it be engine mounts? :newsmile07:

I changed the mounts, forgot to mention that...so....from what's been said here and if I understand the manual, to swap the cams only, I don't need to remove the support plate, just remove the tensioner, swap the cams and ensure that the timing marks line up on reassembly...is that essentially correct?