need some brainstorming

[titan307]

same problem

i have asked before and gotten good suggestions and i checked everything that was suggested but still if temps get below 35* SHE WILL NOT START. So i am asking for more suggetions

Symptoms:

she will crank and crank but will not fire up.

i checked everything that was suggested before but that didnt work.

1) i can here the fuel pump prime up and stop when pressure is reached.
2) full of fuel
3) temp sensor checked
4) she will crank for as long as i hold the button or until i run the battery down

 

[Hoople]

Re: same problem

i have asked before and gotten good suggestions
i checked everything that was suggested before but that didnt work.

Provide a Link to your original thread in order to know history of problem. No point in re-suggesting same ideas as before.
Or better yet, continue from original post.

 

[titan307]

thanks just found it

 

[Hoople]

Re: same problem

i checked everything that was suggested but still
i checked everything that was suggested before but that didnt work.

1) i can here the fuel pump prime up and stop when pressure is reached.
3) temp sensor checked

Based on your entry in post #15, I would bet it's lack of enough fuel. You never said if you had a fuel enrichment device on the bike (power commander etc).

You "checked" the temp sensor? That means nothing. What did you do in order to check it.
If you replaced the sensor and still have the same problem, I would next check the fuel pressure.
"i can here the fuel pump prime up and stop when pressure is reached". It doesn't work like that.
The length of time the pump primes has nothing to do with the pressure that is reached. It primes by time alone.
The pump will stop priming even if the PSI was zero.

Rather than check everything that would result in low fuel pressure (pin-hole leak, bad pressure regulator, fuel pump check valve etc), check the psi reading directly using a gauge. The PSI must shoot up quickly during the boot priming time. 2005 Touring pressure should be at least 58 PSI with a max of 62 PSI. With just 1 boot prime sequence, you should see 58 PSI. Without starting the engine, that PSI reading should hold in the 50's for awhile and should not bleed down.

You never commented on the WOW test results. Did speedo say "no Rsp" or "none" for PCM node error codes.

 

[titan307]

i hope i dont sound like im being rude but the problem is IT WILL NOT START when its cold and only when its cold. when i get home today and the temp will be in the upper 50s it will fire right up no problem.

What could be causing this only when its cold?

If this problem continues to happen the bike will have to go and i will have to get something more dependable as this is my main transportation. I never had this problem with any of my other bikes (metrics) no matter how cold it was. Carbed or F.I.

 

[Redfish-Joe]

Alot of good info here. Just one thing. Stay away from starting fluid. It can quickly wash your cylinders out. Seen it happen too often on diesel equipment.

 

[Hoople]

What could be causing this only when its cold?

Cold fuel does not vaporize easily. That in-turn makes a cold engine hard to start. Heating the fuel or intake manifold is not a practical thing to do. Instead a simple "work-around" is to flood a cold engine with extra fuel in order to get it to start. On a carb engine, a choke vane is used to enrich the mixture. On a FI engine, the ECM is programmed (using a map) to enrich the mixture when the engine is cold. The engine temp sensor tells the ECM that the engine is cold. If the sensor is bad or is not reading correctly, the ECM won't know the engine is cold. Therefore the cold enrichment map never kicks in.
Fuel maps determine the injector "ON" or open time. Keeping the injector ON or open for a longer time delivers more fuel.

Fuel injector delivery rates are based on injector orifice size and fuel pump pressure. If the pressure was low, the delivered amount of fuel would be low. The engine has no way of seeing how much fuel was delivered. The ECM does not monitor fuel pump pressure. If the pressure is low, fuel pump delivery would be low.

On a hot engine, you can get away with low delivery a lot easier than on a cold engine. On a hot engine, missing fuel will just make the engine run a little lean. But on a cold engine, missing fuel will make it hard to start.. Once the engine is hot, the cold fuel will vaporize more easily and the lack of needed fuel is easily hidden.

Your problem could be 1 of many things. Trouble-shooting a problem (especially by internet) is just that... It is troubleshooting. Performing a test steers the tech in a certain direction by telling you what it can't be..

Sometimes a fix can be found in 30 minutes. Sometimes it takes longer. Members can only suggest you make certain checks or tests in order to narrow down the problem. If the tests are not performed, no positive conclusions can be made. That will only lead you in circles.

 

[harley@16]

i hope i dont sound like im being rude but the problem is IT WILL NOT START when its cold and only when its cold. when i get home today and the temp will be in the upper 50s it will fire right up no problem.

What could be causing this only when its cold?

If this problem continues to happen the bike will have to go and i will have to get something more dependable as this is my main transportation. I never had this problem with any of my other bikes (metrics) no matter how cold it was. Carbed or F.I.

I guess there is no magic bullet to fix it but some very good suggestions on how to progress through the indentification of it, just curious, when did you purchase this bike? Was it used? If so maybe the seller wasn't sure how to fix it and got rid of it because of that. Now you can figure it out or go back to the metric, the choice is yours.

 

[titan307]

i will try the suggestions made here before i seriously consider switching back. i have a brand new never opened battery in the garage but it went to my Vstar. not sure if it would be strong enough for this bike. if not i will be getting another battery asap.

I just want to thank all of you for trying to help and for anyone else who adds a tip or trick and hopefully one of the suggestions will work, or maybe a combination of a couple tricks..

 

[Slo-Ryd]

I agree with Hoople 100%. Nobody here is trying to be pompous or give you a hard time. Troubleshooting is a process of elimination. Until the jury comes back "without a reasonable doubt", you have to take one system at a time and thoroughly diagnose it and eliminate the possible trouble, and then move onto the next. There's a wealth of info on this forum and I wouldn't jump to conclusions and get rid of the bike just yet. My wifes new Volvo hates the cold temps and has had issues lately starting when it's below freezing. Forget what your buddies razz you about.

With what you've stated:
Starts fine when warm, eliminates a lot of electrical/ignition issues but not all.
Starts with ether/starting fluid cold. Again, eliminates the ignition.

My bet is a fuel delivery problem as others have stated and Hoople has you pointed in the right direction and has covered in depth how a cold motor and fuel starvation in cold temps plays a key role in getting an engine to fire initially. JMO, but that's where i would focus my efforts.......in fuel pump pressure after prime. Make sure it's holding 50+ psi.

You didn't mention what the checks you performed consisted of, ohm meter resistance, fuel pressure reading, etc. If you have that info, it'll help narrow it down further.:s