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SE Pro Super Tuner + Smart Tune Software

Well, got my engine back together yesterday after installing the new Stage 2 103" kit with the SE255 cams.

My engine mods now consist of:

SE air intake
SE Fatshotz mufflers with 8 discs and open end cap on each side
SE Stage 2 big bore kit (103" and flat top pistons)
SE 255 cams
SE inner cam bearings (timken)

Fired her up, runs real nice, valve train nice and quiet, good oil pressure and no leaks... very happy.

Down loaded the applicable Stage 2 map on my SEPST (205UH005) and went for a quick ride.

Noticed the exhaust note sounds a little more aggressive and wow does this engine ever pull nicely from 2500 rpm on. I've read posts that say this cam falls off at around 4500 rpm but my engine happily spins right past the 5 grand mark with no signs of slowing down. By that time, I am well into losing my licence territory so am pretty happy with the performance.

Only issue thus far as the engine is generating a lot more heat than before and there is a slight stumble/ hesitation off idle and some decel popping when slowing down btwn about 2500 and 1500 rpm.

The heat is no doubt due to the larger bore/higher compression as well as brand new components breaking in but I also get the sense that the engine is running lean in the lower rpms. Only got to ride for about 10 15 minutes and when I came back to the shop to check for leaks, the heavens opened up and of course the rain hasn't stopped since (love the west coast...).

I checked the new map specs and noticed it is set up to run closed loop from 750 to 4000 rpm. I noticed from reading previous posts here that you gents discussed increasing your ve tables 5-10 percent across the board.

Not sure if I should do that first and then run smart tune or if I should just run a smart tune session with basic map as is just to see where I am at and how far off the original tune is.

In any case, I am looking forward to finally playing with the smart tune to see how much things improve. The previous canned map I used for the Stage 1 worked perfect out of the box but this one is going to need a little work.

At the end of the day, I may take it out to Jarz Performance and have them run it on the dyno to make sure a/f is where is should be but I would like to get it as close as I can first. The adventure continues...

Any suggestions or advice is always appreciated.

Another quick update on my SEPST adventure.

Was playing with the smart tune function and recorded a base run in the shop just to see if I could get an idea of where things were at with the canned map. Of course only running at idle and up to 2000 rpm in neutral. Didn't want to run for too long either cause don't want to overheat things.

Allowed the smart tune to do its thing and it came back with several cells at the low end of the scale filled in. The suggested settings for the smart tune modified cells in the VE chart were as much as 10 points higher than the current map.

Kinda confirmed my thoughts that things were a bit lean.

I decided to err on the side of caution and increased all the values for the front and rear VE charts by 7.5%.

Re-flashed the ECM and noticed an immediate difference. Idle is a bit smoother and more importantly, no more stumble or hesitation when whacking the throttle open. Throttle response is now as good as it was before all the engine mods.

Made another short recording and smart tune is suggesting going with slightly lower VE values now in a few cells (off by two points). I am good with that as I would rather be a little on the rich side for now.

Very impressed with this Super Tuner (now that I have figured out how to read the charts and actually make changes....) :D

Looking forward to getting on the road and running some proper recordings during actual driving conditions.
 
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Good deal on your results. I ran multiple recorded runs, 5 in a single day. Eventually my VE changes were minimal from one run/Smart Tune to the next. Once I felt good, I increased my VE tables by 5% from recomendations by others and people I spoke to.

Due to the heat... I dropped my target AFR out of closed loop 14.6 to open loop 13.8, reflashed with reset adaptive fuel checked and felt a noticable difference in heat. I ran through some full tanks of gas and my MPG only dropped to 40 and 41. So not bad. I'm thinking the engine will run even better over time.

Next, I have to factor in Hoople's advice about E10 impact.

Also, the VCI unit was said to only record 15 minutes.. well I recorded 30 minutes w/out it being full. So FYI to others.

One fun tuner, but is more in depth and takes alot more time to learn/use than my TFI that I was really happy with.

Ride safe and have fun!
 
Thanks for the latest info/update Grillfish.

Hopefully on my next days off the weather will cooperate so I can get out and do some proper vci recordings.

I am pretty fortunate to live right beside a provincial park with miles upon miles of roads that are deserted at this time of year so should be a perfect test track to do a bunch of recordings and re-tune.

I have found that the new 103" engine configuration runs pretty hot and will go into heat-mode after idling for only a few minutes. After some research (and reading info provided by yourself and Hoople) I have concluded that the heat is a result of most afr cells presently set to run 14.6 from idle on up to 4000 rpm (unless under load). Ideal for closed-loop vci recordings but not so ideal for performance or cooler running engine.

My next step after smart tuning and getting the ve tables where they should be will be to lower my afr at idle and elsewhere in the tables.

You mentioned that you lowered your target afr to 13.8 Just wondering if you lowered it across the board in all cells or just at idle?

I am thinking I will lower my idle and part throttle afr to some where around 14.0 or less for cooler running but leave the cruise/mid range targets at 14.6 so that those areas remain in closed loop for best fuel economy. Like wise I will lower afr targets at higher rpm / throttle opening for power somewhere in area of 13.0 and blend down to 12.0 at wot.

I dont want to reduce my afr across the entire table as from what I understand, the ecm goes into open loop at afr settings less than 14.6 and I think closed loop is a great feature.

By leaving the light load/cruise range at 14.6 my thinking is that the ecm always has the ability to calculate baseline stoichiometric ratio based on feed-back from the O2 sensors as opposed to running open loop all the time where the ecm becomes essentially blind (no feed-back) and makes adjustments based solely on look-up tables.

On last question, just wondering where your final closed loop bias settings ended up? Mine are presently set at 762 across the board but may change once smart tuning is completed.

Sorry about the long-winded post and all the questions but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there yet on smart tuning "best practices" for the SEPST so am still kinda figuring things out as I go along.:small3d023:

Final update on my SEPST adventure.

After running a number of smart tune recordings I got my VE tables as close as I could with minimal changes between runs.

Some cells on the VE tables never got touched but I simply blended those and subsequent test recordings confirmed they were pretty close.

Although the manual says each session is good for 15 minutes of data recording on the VCI, I easily exceeded 30 minutes of recording time.

Once my VE tables were close enough to call good, I went into the Air Fuel Ratio and adjusted the tables to my liking. Changed 1000 rpm idle AFR to 13.5 and blended AFR slightly leaner up to 1700 rpm where it changes back to closed loop 14.6 AFR.

I found that by richening up the idle AFR, the heat generated at idle has dropped dramatically. The engine will still heat up if idled too long but takes much longer and no more glowing rear exhaust pipe where it exits the head.

I left the light cruise range in closed loop but set the tables to run richer open loop AFR when under load and at higher throttle openings for good power and to ensure things stay cool.

Above 3000 rpm is all open loop based closely on the original Stage 2 map recommendations.

It took some time to play with the settings and recording functions to figure everything out but its amazing what you can adjust using the SEPST. The different tuning changes are quite noticable on the road.

My 103" engine is now very responsive under all driving conditions and the performance is pretty impressive especially compared to the stock 96" engine.

I don't anticipate doing any more tuning runs as I think the performance is as good as I am gonna get it by simply using the smart tune function and the results are as good if not better than I had expected.

I especially like the feature that allows you to record and then play back tuning runs and review all sensor and engine operating parameters on a continuous graph. Makes trouble shooting very simple and the technology is simply light years ahead of what we had available 20 years ago.

Once I have some miles on this engine, I will likely take it in to Jarz Performance to have it checked on the dyno just for peace of mind. I don't expect much more performance but want to make sure that the AFR is consistent and at optimum setting for heavy load / wide open throttle operation.

Very pleased with the SEPST performance and smart tune capability overall.

There are lots of different tuners out there on the market, but if you are willing to invest some time to learn how to use it, the SEPST is a very capable tuning system in my opinion.

Now its time to ride...:D
 
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Sorry I did not respond sooner, I was out on a camping trip.

Great write up! Conceptually, we are going in the same direction. I am too pleased with this tuner and have learned a lot. This will be a good post for others to chime into if they go this route of this particular tuner.

Ride safe and have fun!

Rode down to south FL this past Saturday to see my sister and her family. 250 miles with temps in the low 50's during the dawn hours and then 89 to 90 on the ride home. Mostly all highway with speeds of 60 - 75mph. Got a solid 42 mpg and no heat issue what so ever. Right side leg felt no different than my left with my duals.

The only down side, my TDs and pipes are louder than before and need to look into some ear plugs for these longer rides.
 
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Thanks for the update Grillfish.

I have also noticed the same issue with my exhaust. I have the SE Fatshotz slip-ons with the Supertrapp tunning kit so that I can adjust the back pressure.

Exhaust has a much sharper bark now and while the sound level was perfect with the stock displacement / cams, I am finding it a bit on the loud side now.

Myself and the missus went for a nice ride yesterday (about 6 hours total) and by the end of it, I decided I need to quiet down the exhaust some.

I may add more discs and try the closed exhaust end caps but of course that will affect my tune so here we go again....:D
 
Does anyone know the calculation of the closed loop bias and it's impact to the target 14.6 AFR?

For example, if you have the target AFR set at 14.6 in the cruise range, that is the switch for the ECM to work in closed loop, but then the closed loop bias adjusts the target AFR somewhat (i.e. down to 14.4, 14.2, etc..). Not assessing for E10 gas that we have in FL.

Right now CLB is set @ 762 across the board. Curious more than anything.

Thanks...

Found a table that references CLBs and it's effect on target AFR. This may help others. E10 not included on this table.

AFR versus Bias versus Voltage Divider % Values Divider Bias AFR at 1200F Lamba Test (3.00V base)
100% .500 14.6 .993 3.000
90% .556 14.5 .986 2.700
80% .625 14.4 .980 2.300
72% .694 14.3 .973 2.080
66% .746 14.2 .966 1.950
65% .769 14.1 .959 1.897
63% .794 14.0 .952 1.837
62% .806 13.9 .946 1.816
61% .820 13.8 .939 1.776
60% .833 13.7 .932 1.755
58% .847 13.6 .925 1.715
 
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Am I reading the chart incorrectly?
Based on that chart, shifting the bias voltage from say .200 to .830, would shift my AF ratio by almost 2 whole points. That can't be right. You would never get that much swing from a narrow band sensor. The entire band swing from a narrow sensor is not much more than .6 of 1 point. (~+.3 & -.3)
 
Hoople. I'll send you a PM to the link where I found this. Like you said, prob need to understand this better.
 
Some of what they say makes sense but some of it doesn't. It's almost like they are treating the sensor as if it was wide band or as if the narrow band could understand mixture values outside of its 14.9 to 14.2 window. When a narrow band sensor is exposed to a mixture of 13.9 (pure gas), it just sees it "as rich" and nothing else. It doesn't know if it's 12.9 or 13.9,, it just knows it is richer than 14.2 and tells the ECM to toggle the injector to a leaner duration if in closed loop mode. So if you were to bias (or shift) the output voltage of the sensor out of it's usable range, it would be meaningless to the ECM.

Actually the sensor is just looking for a "lack of" or an "abundance of" O2 molecules after combustion takes place. If it sees a bunch of free O2 molecules in the exhaust, it calls it lean regardless of the true ratio or the fuel used.

That's the reason you can use that same exact O2 sensor on a pure Alky engine running at a stoich a/f ratio of 9.0. The sensor does not care what fuel is used or what the mixture ratio is. But it can tell you if there are "too many" or "too few" O2 molecules left behind AFTER combustion.
 
Thanks Hoople. Your comments makes sense. As I start to think I've made some progress on understanding the complexities of ECMs, I run into this and scratch my head. Oh well, I feel good my Smart Tune process hit 90% of where I run my bike and so far so good.

Might try the V&H quiet baffle to reduce these true duals and the V&H pipes, but awaiting on confirmation from V&H on the exact part # and confirmation of the process to install. I've seen some differing part #s. If I install it, I'll go back and redo my Smart Tunes and see where it takes me.

Have a good one!
 
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